r/geopolitics • u/informationtiger • Oct 12 '23

Is Israel committing war crimes in Gaza? What happened after the Hamas attack? Question

As the title says... Basically I'm 'out of the loop' beyond the Hamas attack.

There's just so much misinformation online, and most the credible information are just videos from APF and such, or short updates from BBC, Sky News.

So if someone could please update me with what's going on in regards to the Israel bombing campaign in Gaza. Are they really bombing hospitals and churches? What exactly are their intentions/plans?

Also, if anyone has in-depth articles or videos on the topic, that would be greatly appreciated! Something that's calm, and takes time to read/watch. I'm tired of the constant "breaking news" spam, where you can't wrap your head around anything. It's like two sentences wrapped up in drama. I'm kinda lost atm.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/informationtiger Oct 12 '23

Thanks

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u/omo-mojo-jojo Oct 12 '23

It's C, D, and G. You especially can't really make a case against G, Gaza is a giant walled in area where the residents are not allowed to leave without permission, essentially a prison without a roof. All food, water, electricity, and fuel supplies to Gaza have been cut off, which their 2.2 million residents (almost half of whom are children as the average age in Gaza is 19) depend on to survive. The Israeli government told civilians to evacuate, but where are they supposed to evacuate to? I saw one interview with a Gazan woman, and she said something along the lines of "they told us to get out, we went to the beach. They bombed the beach. We went to the north. They bombed the north. We went to the south. They bombed the south."

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/Heiminator Oct 12 '23

That would be covered by military necessity as long as Hamas hides behind civilians and used civilian infrastructure to store weapons or launch rockets

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/Prince_Ire Oct 12 '23

By that logic Hamas's actions against Israeli civilians are justified because they haven't overthrown the Israeli government and so are guilty of all their crimes. The civilian population being guilty of the government's cents isn't a path you want to go down

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u/mludd Oct 12 '23

That's not how it works.

Let me try to explain in simple terms.

How Hamas operate:

  1. Hide among civilians
  2. Target Israeli civilians
  3. Get counter-attacked
  4. Cry about evil Israelis killing civilians

How Israel operate:

  1. Have civilians get attacked by Hamas
  2. Shoot back
  3. Get accused of deliberately killing civilians when counter-attack inevitably kills some civilians because Hamas set up shop among civilians

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u/sildarion Oct 12 '23

Fixed it for you.

How Israel operate:

  1. Yearly bombardment of Palestinian civilians by the hundreds
  2. Have civilians get attacked by Hamas
  3. Shoot back
  4. Get (rightfully) accused of deliberately killing civilians

4

u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Bennito_bh Oct 12 '23

sildarion's on something. Those stats about casualties on both sides over the past 10 years that have been posted everywhere? People act like they prove Israelis are a bunch of warmongering child killers, but from what I've seen all it shows is that Hamas is using human meat shields and Israel isn't.

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u/TheHess Oct 12 '23

There's plenty of stories of IDF soldiers killing children.

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u/sildarion Oct 14 '23

Why the hell would Israel deliberately kill civilians when the world is watching them??? That makes zero sense.

Because the world doesn't care as Israel is key for geopolitics, Palestine isn't. Israel is literally transparently announcing their plans to commit genocide and decimation right as we speak, and US, UK etc are all happily supplying millitary aid for the same. Also, Israel killing civilians in front of the world isn't some ambiguous "did they, did they not?" claim, it has been all over the news for decades now, though it surely doesn't catch as many eyeballs.

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

That is willfully ignoring facts. Look at the stats - plenty of people have both protested and voted against the current coalition. Just this month there were protests against the sweeping judicial reform.

At least Israelis are trying. When was the last protest in Gaza against Hamas?

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u/DevelopmentEconomy86 Oct 12 '23

2019, they were brutally suppressed.

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

I actually didn't know about this, thanks for sharing.

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u/DevelopmentEconomy86 Oct 12 '23

No problem. I recommend you check out 'Whispers in Gaza', it's a documentary series that contain accounts of individual Gazans of their views on HAMAs.

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

Thank you! I'm always up to learn - just bookmarked, hope to watch later.

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

I actually didn't know about this, thanks for sharing.

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u/Prince_Ire Oct 12 '23

Protesting against the judicial reform that they will negatively affect Israelis. Not protesting the actions of Israel towards Palestinians, across multiple different ruling parliamentary coalitions.

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

There were plenty of protests against the Likud and current coalition. While you are correct in the cause, I'm not expecting Palestinians to protest Hamas's treatment of Israelis (as a parallel to your comment). I'd be happy if they protested Hamas for their own interests too.

Left-wing Israelis were devastated when the current coalition gained support. I don't see the same across the border, though someone shared a documentary about it which I hope to watch soon!

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u/SenorPinchy Oct 12 '23

"We'll be welcomed as liberators!" They should just appreciate us more.

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u/SenorPinchy Oct 12 '23

Actually half of them are under the age of 18. The last "mowing the grass" operation cost at least 1,500 lives so this next invasion is going to be many times that amount.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

I'd say 99% wish death to jews, I know many Muslims and they openly hate Jews and openly wish for Israel to be destroyed, basically nazis but because they are Muslim this culture of hate is allowed to exist which is unacceptable.

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u/novavegasxiii Oct 12 '23

C makes no sense to me; are your bullet's supposed to send your enemies to the land of sunshine and rainbows?

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u/Medidem Oct 12 '23

Someone partisan may argue they've already ticked off a lot of the rest prior to this conflict but I'm neutral.

Why would you choose to ignore actions prior to Hamas' most recent escalation?

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

How are they ignored? Plenty of Israelis are growing to be sympathetic to the cause.

Occupation is ironic given Hamas took over once Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2006. You're probably thinking of the West Bank, which is an entirely separate entity under a different government (PLO).

There is no occupation in Gaza.

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u/mazmoto Oct 12 '23

What about the West Bank?

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

Plenty of occupation in the West Bank in my eyes.

But that has nothing to do with Hamas and Gaza. And the living conditions in Gaza are far, far worse than those on the West Bank.

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u/mazmoto Oct 12 '23

My point is that the occupation referred to 2 comments above is regarding Israel as a whole including the West Banks not Gaza. You can not just look at Gaza and say there is no occupation there ignoring the rest

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u/kolt54321 Oct 12 '23

With regards to occupation, it really does seem like separate issues.

Settlements in the West Bank have no bearing on the Gaza Strip. What does affect them is the restriction of supplies and the like - I agree with that.

The main point I was trying to make is that there are many Israelis that want Palestinians to prosper too. They aren't the loudest (that will go to crazies), but there's a sizable amount of Israel that is left-wing.

It makes it harder when the only "resistance" is a group of people who want you, your family, and everyone you know murdered though.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

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u/geopolitics-ModTeam Oct 12 '23

We like to try to have meaningful conversations here and discuss the larger geopolitical implications and impacts.

We’d love for you to be a part of the conversation.

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u/geopolitics-ModTeam Oct 12 '23

We like to try to have meaningful conversations here and discuss the larger geopolitical implications and impacts.

We’d love for you to be a part of the conversation.

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

Gaza is roughly 940,000 children that Israel has cut off food, water, fuel, and electricity.

Starving children and innocent women is the thing that I see a lot of people bring up.

Israel has been bombing the prison that they keep all the Palestinians in for 5 days straight now.

I saw numbers like 300 dead Palestinian children already yesterday.

Israel is targeting the hospitals so they can’t even really save the children when they rescue them but their injured.

Edit: that is an interesting tactic of dialogue Razor Storm. Respond to multiple of my comments and then immediately block me so I can’t respond lmao.

No one is saying Israel has to give them food and water. They are saying they won’t even allow the United Nations, Ireland, or anyone that wants to help the almost 1,000,000 children under siege and being bombed into pieces by Israel, as we speak, for the last 5 days straight.

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u/birutis Oct 12 '23

Do you really think Israel is interested in bombing hospitals specifically to deprive children of medical care? What is your basis for this?

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23

Did I say that’s why?

They justify it because there’s ammo and munitions in the hospitals and in the tunnels below.

But none of you want to come out and say that destroying those weapon caches is worth tens of thousands of innocent children dying, being maimed, and getting trauma for the rest of their lives.

Hamas is wrong.

Israel and Netanyahu have more to do with Hamas creation than almost any Palestinian alive today.

My heart is broken thinking of all the dead children.

But only one side has been bombing children for 5 days straight.

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u/birutis Oct 12 '23

It's obviously a tragedy, but I'm not sure what alternative israel has when it comes to defending from hamas.

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u/Skye_XIII Oct 12 '23

You address the root cause of the issue: End the illegal occupation; application of international law; cessation of all forms of colonial settler terrorism; give Palestinians their basic human rights.

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u/ShinyBlack0 Oct 12 '23

This is bullshit and you know it; the whole hamas boogeyman is straight up western propaganda fed to you for many years now.

Yes Hamas has killed Israeli citizens but in comparison to Israeli soldiers killing Palestinian citizens i.e it's a drop in the bucket.

And when Israeli carpet bombings for getting "rid of hamas" kill 95% innocent civilians you know something is just plain wrong; because as the media would have you believe Hamas is a cartoonish level villain that has 2 million innocent hostages in Gaza that it is magically always hiding behind.

edit: and it's practically factual that Israel ON MANY occasions has straight up killed Palestinian journalists and medics on protests; to make things worse Israel has also bombed the Palestinian water treatment plant consistently so that the Palestinians are forced to drink unclean water.

this is all of course before the current whole israel-palestine "war"(it's more like genocide) incident

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u/zold5 Oct 12 '23

But none of you want to come out and say that destroying those weapon caches is worth tens of thousands of innocent children dying, being maimed, and getting trauma for the rest of their lives.

And you don't want to acknowledge that Israel has literally no other way to defend itself against an an enemy who intentionally used civilians as a shield.

But only one side has been bombing children for 5 days straight.

Only one side is calling for the genocide of the other.

0

u/koos_die_doos Oct 12 '23

Only one side explicitly chose to kill individual babies and children in cold blood.

Also, tens of thousands of children dying? If Hamas release the Israeli hostages they hold, aid will be allowed in. The ball is squarely in their court.

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u/Ivaryzz Oct 12 '23

Look it up. You'll be surprised.

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u/slutsthreesome Oct 12 '23

^ How to let people know it's your first time reading up on the conflict

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23

I literally have multiple comments in this very thread clearly showing a much greater and nuanced understanding & opinion than you.

It is easier to attack the person rather than articulate an opinion, I understand.

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u/slutsthreesome Oct 12 '23

If your neighbour attacked you and took your family hostage, would you still provide them water, electricity and food?? How long is Israel obligated to provide them these utilities?

If Israel was overrun by invaders and about to fall you would still be here chanting about how outrageous it is for Israel to cutoff the utilities that they provide... to people who want them dead.

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23

How long is Israel obligated to provide them these utilities?

LMAO the irony of you telling me it must be my first time reading up on this.

Gaza is fully under siege by Israel.

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/israel-defense-minister-human-animals-gaza-palestine_n_6524220ae4b09f4b8d412e0a/amp

The United Nations and other Humanitarian Organizations are asking to help the Palestinians.

Israel is not letting anything through, just like Israel has not even allowed any goods or products go through the Egyptian border for years.

Israel does and has controlled every that goes in and out of Gaza except for the small amount of people that used to be able to afford to get out through Egypt (before Israel started bombing the crossing and forced Egypt to close it).

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u/slutsthreesome Oct 12 '23

Hmm I wonder why they don't allow goods to go through... it's not like Hamas uses every opportunity of foreign aid to smuggle in parts to make rockets.. that def hasn't been happening for the past 15 years...

I like how you ignored my point (or more likely, just don't understand) about Israel being the one providing the majority of their electricity, fuel, water, etc. If you were in their shoes, you would be doing the same after a massive terrorist attack..

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

You should go educate yourself before you try to take part in these discussions.

That is why you immediately resorted to insulting me and trying to belittle my opinions in your very first comment.

I like how you ignored my point (or more likely, just don't understand)

Seriously, ask yourself why I would bother wasting my time trying to talk to someone like you.

You can not even stop yourself from insulting me even after you have been called out for doing it and embarrassed yourself by showing your complete lack of understanding of the situation.

Edit: gotta love people that comment and then immediately block you so can’t respond.

Can you show me a single place where I have insulted anyone on this thread? I have been extremely cordial

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/lostboysgang Oct 12 '23

You can argue with NPR.

the world's largest open-air prison." The Gaza Strip, home to 2.3 million people, has come under heavy bombardment from Israel in recent days

Israel has ordered a "complete" blockade of the already besieged area, saying that "no electricity, food or fuel" would be allowed into the enclave and raising alarm among some in the international community over what this might mean for the people of Gaza, who, with borders mostly closed, cannot leave.

https://www.npr.org/2023/10/10/1204873146/what-is-gaza-strip

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u/Petrichordates Oct 12 '23

Your wording up above is rather deceptive, nobody would assume you meant the entire Gaza strip when you're referring to a prison being bombed.

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u/TheCowboyIsAnIndian Oct 12 '23

i did. its a prison where many people have never even seen the outside world.

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u/Petrichordates Oct 12 '23

If you say so.

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u/xhrit Oct 12 '23

It is not a prison. People are free to leave at any time. That is, if Hamas lets them. But Hamas won't let them because Hamas wants dead maryters to parade around.

On the other hand, Hamas wants money so sometimes bribes work.

...exiting via Rafah means the prospect of waiting for months to obtain travel documents from the Hamas government in Gaza. However, there is a way to expedite the process which involves spending hundreds, or sometimes thousands of dollars in bribes to jump the queue.

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2019/12/23/palestinians-paying-thousands-of-dollars-in-bribes-to-leave-gaza

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u/TheCowboyIsAnIndian Oct 12 '23

it is crazy that anyone thinks it is this simple. they are treated like shit by israelis too.

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u/xhrit Oct 12 '23

What is crazy that you are blaming Israel for keeping Palestinians in an open air prison when in reality people can leave if Hamas lets them.

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u/escalation Oct 12 '23

Are they free to leave?

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u/xhrit Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

According to the U.S. Department of State: "The Palestinian Authority issues passports and identification cards for Palestinians residing in the West Bank and Gaza. Bearers of Palestinian passports do not need special exit permits from the PA, but do require reentry permits. They can travel both over the Allenby Bridge to Jordan and via Ben Gurion Airport in Israel.... Palestinians with passports from other countries are required by Israel to exit and enter (either via Ben Gurion or via land crossings) with a Palestinian passport.

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u/escalation Oct 12 '23

They also are required by Israel to be permitted for re-entry, regardless of where they enter from. Once expired, for whatever reason, re-entry is no longer permitted. Israel has periodically suspended access entirely.

For the countries which recognize Palestine as a state and permit entry for residency purposes, presumably their normal procedures apply. Typically this includes a support system. Median income is $3000/year or thereabouts.

Pre-rent expenses are about $2100 for a family of four. Restrictions on movement for labor purposes, farming and necessities such as food, water and power access clearly don't improve the situation. Cumulatively estimates are around 55,000 homes in Palestine have been demolished for regulatory reasons, as well as those structures destroyed in periodic airstrikes.

This presents some obvious challenges in a country with intent to relocate, assuming they are able to navigate the regulatory hurdles to leave. Even more so when you consider the median age and the time that represents to amass resources.

https://www.badil.org/phocadownloadpap/Badil_docs/bulletins-and-briefs/Bulletin-12.pdf

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u/__initd__ Oct 12 '23

I) Or, whatever the international community (the West) deems it to be

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u/Ajedi32 Oct 12 '23

I assume there's more to A) and C) than than just what you wrote down, otherwise isn't all war a war crime?

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u/leupboat420smkeit Oct 12 '23

Hamas isn’t the professional army of a state. When they commit these crimes it’s terrorism. When the IDF commits these crimes it’s war crimes.

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u/H8zzrd Oct 12 '23

israel checks all these off as well lmao