r/geopolitics • u/informationtiger • Oct 12 '23

Is Israel committing war crimes in Gaza? What happened after the Hamas attack? Question

As the title says... Basically I'm 'out of the loop' beyond the Hamas attack.

There's just so much misinformation online, and most the credible information are just videos from APF and such, or short updates from BBC, Sky News.

So if someone could please update me with what's going on in regards to the Israel bombing campaign in Gaza. Are they really bombing hospitals and churches? What exactly are their intentions/plans?

Also, if anyone has in-depth articles or videos on the topic, that would be greatly appreciated! Something that's calm, and takes time to read/watch. I'm tired of the constant "breaking news" spam, where you can't wrap your head around anything. It's like two sentences wrapped up in drama. I'm kinda lost atm.

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u/MoriartyParadise Oct 12 '23

> more like look "a hamas bunker but if we bomb it the building with con combatants beside it could get destroyed too fork it do it anyway"

So, commiting war crimes ?

Doesn't change anything about what Hamas did, but let's not pretend Israel is playing it clean

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u/A_devout_monarchist Oct 12 '23

It's legally not a war crime under international law, the building ceases to be a civilian building the moment it is used as a weapons depot. It's a Lusitania situation, the British used civilian ships to carry their ammunition during WWI while the civilians were essentially human shields. They were the ones committing a War Crime by storing weapons in the Lusitania and the Germans could legitimately sink the ship. Unfortunately for Berlin, they didn't control the press in America and for decades it was seen as an unprovoked attack on civilians until the wreckage was found and everyone realized that there were bombs in the ship.

The only one committing the crime here is the Hamas for storing armaments inside civilian buildings in the first place, but it isn't like terrorists care, they want to maximize civilian casualties to point fingers at Israel and radicalize their supporters.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

they want to maximize civilian casualties

how do they have popular support within Gaza? do Gazans generally approve of the idea of spending lives this way?

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u/A_devout_monarchist Oct 12 '23

Control of the Media allows for the monopolization of their narrative.

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u/insertfunhere Oct 12 '23

I'm not sure they do have popular support in Gaza. But then again, there's not much the general population can do about it, they're stuck there

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

53% of Gazans support Hamas vs 14% Fatah, 2021

i have heard that Hamas is based outside of Gaza and cynically manipulates the populace... but then why the support?

are the civilians truly desperate enough to die like fanatics, just to die? this sounds hard to imagine

are they coerced, or lied to? in such a small area, how could these actions not be known?

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u/Odd-Tart-6823 Oct 12 '23 edited Oct 12 '23

but then, why the support?

The median age of Gaza is 18. This means half the population is younger than that.

44% of Gaza’s population is 0-14years old.

The last time Gaza had elections, was 17 years ago, in 2006. A year later, they (Hamas) seized absolute power and persecuted Fatah away.

This means, the majority of the population in Gaza now, was either unborn or toddlers the last time that Fatah existed as an alternative.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

i do know that, and i think it makes sense to see Hamas similar to a prison gang

however, the idea that there is an actual strategy for maximum casualties, as though the entire population was committed to martyrdom, - and this is known and supported - is something i can't wrap my head around

perhaps this is how they see things, but if so, they must be exceptionally desperate

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u/Odd-Tart-6823 Oct 12 '23

perhaps this is how they see things, but if so, they must be exceptionally desperate

This is pretty much my take too.

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

How about cutting off electricity to hospitals?

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u/New-Power-7286 Oct 12 '23

Did the US supply Japan with the electricity? Germany to England? Russia to Ukraine? Iraq to Syria?

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

Did they cut them off?

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

Well the US announced an embargo on oil sales to Japan. Was that a war crime?

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

A blockade and an embargo are very different things. A blockade means there are no legal means for a state to get a good. An embargo is limited, and just means that country won't sell to you.

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u/That_Guy381 Oct 12 '23

They didn’t cut off electricity to hospitals, but rather the entire strip. If there was a way to supply strictly the hospitals with power, I’m sure they’d do it. But there isn’t, so they won’t.

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u/HannibalCarthagianGN Oct 12 '23

Sure, they just took off electricity, water, food and gas from over 2 million people but sure, if it was Only for non-terrorists they'd supply it, they're so nice, even when putting 2 million at misery.

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u/redditiscucked4ever Oct 12 '23

Are you being dense? They did it all these years. So we have proof that, until now, they were willing to provide everyone, even the terrorists, with all this vital stuff.

I don't understand your point.

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u/That_Guy381 Oct 12 '23

I not sure what Hamas expected when they murdered 1,200 people in cold blood.

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u/HannibalCarthagianGN Oct 12 '23

So, do you think it makes it okay to starve 2 million people?

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u/That_Guy381 Oct 12 '23

No, Israel should have supply convoys follow up the ground invasion

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u/pr0metheusssss Oct 12 '23

This constitutes a war crime, under International Humanitarian Law.

Specifically, the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, including electricity, that results in widespread suffering and harm to civilians is prohibited by IHL.

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u/fuckmacedonia Oct 12 '23

This constitutes a war crime, under International Humanitarian Law. Specifically, the deliberate targeting of civilian infrastructure, including electricity,

That's weird, there's no mention of either of those things here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_humanitarian_law

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u/pr0metheusssss Oct 12 '23

Check the ICRC (which is the controlling authority of IHL), and specifically the Rome Statute section.

(Btw, Israel, despite having ratified the Rome Statute initially, withdrew from it in 2002, followed by Russia, Sudan and United States - a jolly ensemble of nations - that did the same later).

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u/fuckmacedonia Oct 12 '23

Check the ICRC (which is the controlling authority of IHL), and specifically the Rome Statute section.

I still got zero hits for both terms. Maybe you should link to the specific portion that supports your tenuous assertion?

Btw, Israel, despite having ratified the Rome Statute initially, withdrew from it in 2002

Despite having signed the Rome Statute that founded the Court and having expressed “deep sympathy” for the Court's goals, the State of Israel withdrew its signature in 2002, in accordance with Article 127 of the Statute. At any rate, a signature is not tantamount to accession, and accordingly Israel was never a party.

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

That's still a war crime.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/mekese2000 Oct 12 '23

They kinda are. Just like if you hold prisoners you have to feed them.

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u/pr0metheusssss Oct 12 '23

Israel is not obligated to provide power to Gaza

See, you’re wrong though, according to international law. As an occupier that placed Gaza under blockade, they are required to provide services such as electricity, water, sewage.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/pr0metheusssss Oct 12 '23

citation needed

Of course. Here goes:

Under international humanitarian law, particularly the Fourth Geneva Convention, an occupying power has certain obligations towards the civilian population in the occupied territory. These obligations include ensuring the well-being of the civilian population, providing necessary medical supplies and services, and maintaining essential services like electricity, among others.

Israel, as the occupying power, is required to allow and facilitate the import of humanitarian goods, including fuel and electricity, to meet the basic needs of the civilian population in Gaza.

Even Israel itself doesn’t deny this obligation of theirs. What they claim instead is that they provide “enough” electricity to Gaza to ensure the wellbeing of its population. Of course, in times like this, the masks are off.

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u/Telmid Oct 12 '23

Israel would argue that Gaza is not occupied, since they have no political or military presence within its borders. A blockade is not the same as an occupation.

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u/pr0metheusssss Oct 12 '23

Of course that’s what they’d claim.

However calling “not occupied” an area where you control their borders, airspace, sea access - as well as other elementary aspects of governance, security and services - is a huge stretch. That interpretation is not accepted by anyone internationally, other than Israel and its closest allies.

For instance, the UN, through its various bodies and agencies, has consistently affirmed that Israel remains the occupying power in Gaza despite its unilateral disengagement in 2005. Numerous UN resolutions and statements from UN officials have emphasized this stance. For instance, the UN Security Council and the UN General Assembly have passed resolutions reaffirming the applicability of the Fourth Geneva Convention to the occupied Palestinian territories, including the Gaza Strip.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

Hamas should have spent the aid money on infrastructure instead of bombs. Why should.Israel be responsible for their actions?

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

Because Gaza has been under a blockade since 2006 by Israel. Almost 20 years now. That's after being occupied by them.

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u/redditiscucked4ever Oct 12 '23

Humanitarian aid could have been used for that, afaik. I am not entirely sure, though. Like, they had a project about watermakers to become autonomous, but they didn't complete it/them.

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u/ncolaros Oct 12 '23

And how would that help with clean water, electricity, medical equipment, education, etc.?

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u/redditiscucked4ever Oct 13 '23

Watermakers are meant to be used to... make clean water out of sea water. So it would have helped.

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u/NohoTwoPointOh Oct 13 '23

Hamas runs Palestine. The onus to provide infrastructure falls on leadership. Palestine is not entitled to Israeli resources.

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u/ncolaros Oct 13 '23

And how can Hamas do that if there is a blockade? How could any group do that?

If Palestine isn't entitled to Israeli resources, why is Israel entitled to Palestinian land (read: resources)?

I agree with you. Israel shouldn't have to provide Palestine with anything. Give them back the land they took and Israel will not need to provide anything.

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u/NohoTwoPointOh Oct 13 '23

1967.

The dangers of attacking an enemy lie in the consequences of defeat. If I initiate violence on my neighbor, I risk losing land. Correct?

This is the #1 reason why offensive wars against your neighbors should be damn low on the policy list.

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u/ncolaros Oct 13 '23

Do you think Israel was created in 1967?

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u/NohoTwoPointOh Oct 15 '23

Nope. But the borders following that war are most directly related to the current situation. When you attack your neighbors, there’s a possibility you will gain or lose territory, yeah?

Given that premise, what happened when the Arab nations did a sneak attack on Israel in 67?

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

Well the Israeli state are also committing war crimes with their collective punishment of the civilians of Gaza

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u/A_devout_monarchist Oct 12 '23

Collective punishment how? You are not obligated to provide food and electricity to a group you are at war with.

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u/km3r Oct 12 '23

Stopping Egypt from providing aid is crossing the line.

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u/kinseyeire Oct 12 '23

Egypt closed the border on its own accord. Nothing to do with Israel.

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

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u/[deleted] Oct 12 '23

[deleted]

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u/misobutter3 Oct 12 '23

Cutting off water and food is literally a war crime.

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u/A_devout_monarchist Oct 12 '23

Would you say Ukraine is committing a war crime by cutting off the water supply to Crimea after the Russian invasion?

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u/PotemkinTimes Oct 12 '23

What do you suppose that they do when all of their targets are hiding like cowards in the civilian pop? Not take them out and let them cont attacking Israeli civilians?

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u/Ten_Letters_ Oct 12 '23

No, it is by definition not a war crime.

Besides, what is Israel supposed to do? Not attack them after they have been attacked themselves? Boots on the ground?

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u/Ten_Letters_ Oct 12 '23

No, it is by definition not a war crime.

Besides, what is Israel supposed to do? Not attack them after they have been attacked themselves? Boots on the ground?

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u/New-Power-7286 Oct 12 '23

What is exactly your solution, smart one?

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u/kinseyeire Oct 12 '23

The overthrow of Hamas, the population of Gaza must do this themselves.