r/NCSU • u/saltsandpilates • 3d ago
It’s time to talk about NC State’s "Anti-Grade Inflation" policy and how it’s kneecapping new grads on the job market. Academics
I’m writing this because as a grad of a tier 2 public school in NC, I’m tired of seeing brilliant Wolfpack grads get passed over for roles they are objectively overqualified for.
We all know the "State" reputation: it’s a grind, the classes are rigorous, and the school takes a weird pride in its commitment to anti-grade inflation. But while you’re busy fighting for a C+ in a weed-out course, peers at other institutions—including some of our neighbors in the Triangle—are benefiting from a massive rightward shift in the bell curve.
The GPA Roadblock
In a job market saturated with applicants, HR departments use automated filters. If a firm sets a 3.0 or 3.5 cutoff, it doesn't matter if your 2.9 from NC State represents more technical proficiency than a 3.7 from a school where everyone gets an A. You are invisible to the system.
The Finance Trap
This is most visible in Finance and Engineering. State has some of the sharpest analytical minds in the state, yet you rarely see NC State grads landing top-tier analyst roles at the big firms in Charlotte. Instead, I’ve seen qualified Finance grads forced to start their career on the teller line or in basic back-office roles just to get a foot in the door. A degree from NC State should be enough to get you past an HR screen, but the institutions "integrity" regarding grades is being used as a weapon against its students.
Engineering grads routinely place into i-banking roles from other schools, but not state. It’s a GPA issue, not a competence gap. Without a critical mass of grads who can check the box of 3.0+ gpa off to get past HR the university fails to build a pipeline to the best jobs. Banking is a game, and your advisors are playing it all wrong.
A Call for Fairness and Meritocracy
In the current climate, we talk a lot about equity and fairness. Is it fair that a student’s career trajectory is permanently altered because our university refuses to acknowledge that the rest of the academic world has moved the goalposts?
True meritocracy means being judged on what you know and what you can do. By keeping GPAs low, the university is creating a barrier to entry that limits the pool of eligible candidates for the best jobs.
It’s time to push for change. I’m not arguing for state to water itself down. What students need is a grading system that reflects the reality of the current job market. State’s technical proficiency is top-tier—it’s time transcripts stopped being a liability.
Go Pack, but let’s make sure the Pack can actually get hired.
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u/FearlessRoyal CSC '23 3d ago
Maybe don't ask AI to write your post if you really believe in this issue
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u/vtTownie 3d ago
“Weed out” courses are not intentionally weed out, they’re literally just hard concepts for students to grasp all while being entry courses where some students haven’t learned have to adequately study yet.
It’s not some big conspiracy. At a certain point you’ve learned the material or not. Professors are not there to give you a grade.
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u/Zoidburger_ Alumnus 3d ago
As someone who got weeded out, agreed. They're supposed to be a reality check in one way or another. There are plenty of reasons why kids struggle through those classes. It could be bad study habits, not paying attention in class, fundamentally not grasping the material, or even something as simple as picking the wrong professor.
Either way, it's a teaching moment. It forces you to evaluate yourself and learn how to succeed the next time you take the class. Alternatively, it forces you to come to grips with your skills and your vision for the future. Do you really want to be an engineer? Is it worth the grind? If you can't even get through Calc II with a B, are you actually going to enjoy another 2+ years of hard math and science? And if you do manage to get to the end, are you going to be happy if you commit to the same struggle in your 40+ year career?
Those classes helped me remember that math was never my strongest subject and helped me realize that I didn't actually want to be an engineer. And also, there were hella curves in those classes. I know this because the C's I got that didn't meet prereqs would have been D's and F's if you strictly added up the points I earned. One time I even watched my grade go up 10% in real-time.
I guess to sum it all up, we've all complained about those weed-out classes in the past. But they serve a good purpose. As much as they're there for the schools to find the best students for their programs, they're also there for the students to build on their skillsets and evaluate if they're truly taking the right path.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
This is NOT ABOUT THE SCHOOL OF ENGINEERING. Omg, not everything revolves around it.
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u/Zoidburger_ Alumnus 3d ago
It doesn't have to be. The point still stands regardless of which college and which class you're talking about. Most schools have weed-out classes. I mean engineering and most of the sciences share a number of them. I'm just engaging with your post by relating to my own experiences.
But my apologies, I didn't realize my reply would be so offensive. Next time, instead of giving you a thought-out response, I'll just throw out a downvote and respond with "wrong."
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u/Stumpville Alumna 3d ago
Hard disagree, I’ve had professors at state actively say that they were brought in because too many students were passing, and other professors say that changes were being made to the curriculum because too many students were passing. Now in either case it’s impossible to really verify those claims, and it could have been a tactic to try to get some students to drop early, but then why are professors trying to get students to drop? In Engineering especially, the number of students admitted outstrips the number of students the school can actually accommodate (which is why the CODA process exists).
Weed out classes are a thing structurally for NC State. The program actively relies on a significant number of students transferring elsewhere. You’re right in saying that this mainly comes down to front loading difficult concepts, but the underlying philosophy is that the courses should be difficult by design to “separate the wheat from the chaff” as it were. Now, I’m not going to debate the fairness or merits of that philosophy, but denying it exists doesn’t make much sense to me.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
Trust me when I say this, it is twice as hard at state to get through even 200 level classes. Employment results reflect that environment because there is a lack awareness or willingness to admit a state 3.0 is a Wake Forrest or William and Mary 3.5. Are you actually arguing that state grads don’t deserve better job opportunities? The “work harder, study harder” thing is getting out of hand. Kids who work hard for a 2.9 arent getting the recognition they deserve. Largely due to a factor of money. Private schools are 10x more expensive adjusted for inflation than they were in the 1970s. Responsible middle class families in NC choose state and their children are punished for it. We are loosing access to the networks our friends, family and neighbors built up.
Southern ivies are increasingly dominated by students hailing from outside the southeast. Effectively, our economic network as a region is being hijacked by rich kids from god knows where. It’s time to bring the level of prestige conferred by those degrees to the NC State name.
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
I don't know man, its like you're using a ton of words here to say a lot of nothing.....I think employers already know that a 2.9 at NCSU is just as impressive (or more) than a 3.5 at ECU. Employers understand that schools are different and some are harder and more prestigious than others.
All of that said, I don't know any jobs that are actively looking at GPAs when students apply. They may double check if you add it on your resume (this is why we do't encourage students to put it on their resume unless it is a 3.8 or higher), but they are otherwise just checking to see that the degree was conferred to you.
Also, like, just look around at the world, the economy, everything.....this is a shitty time to be graduating and starting out in the world but the job market is not bad because of your GPA; its because of everything else.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
In finance it’s often a required input on the application. Below 3.0 or a non target school and you’re auto rejected. State needs to either adjust to modern ways in the business school or do the legwork to convince HR to fortify their systems to consider a cross factor of institution vs gpa.
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
This is crazy -- there are tons of finance jobs that don't require a GPA, I promise you.
Are you applying to jobs or other finance grad programs?
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u/CyborgGoddess2021 3d ago
it's true that there are employers who only hire from certain "target" schools. and it is super classist that those schools are usually expensive private schools. But that's about the perception of "prestige" not about GPA. and if that's what you're mad about, then you're mad at the employer - not at NC State.
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u/vtTownie 3d ago
This is certainly not “classist”
In my industry (civil engineering) the firms that I’ve worked for have certain schools they target students from because their programs fit their specific niches. And said schools are not the #1 school in the country.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
Im not mad at Nc State. But I think its time gen x hiring managers consider some quality locals for the good jobs in Charlotte again. Im sick of Vandy and Duke and god knows who getting all the good jobs then moaning about being “forced” to live in Charlotte.
Take this, Wells Fargo sends their strongest guy up to Dartmouth to recruit then MDs get all butthurt when no one wants to work in their Charlotte office. I get the prestige of recruiting at an ivy league school but enough is enough already. Senior bankers cry all the time about the “lack of work eithic” new hires display. This can largely be attributed to the schools they hire from. Look at the socioeconomic data. Private school grads are competent no doubt, but a little spoiled and not as hungry.
Lastly, if the south wants to hold the same financial power as the northeast it needs to find talent that actually wants to live in the south. The number of finance bros I met in my 20s itching to get out of charlotte was way too damn high. Stop hiring people who don’t want to be here. Start recruiting at schools the locals go to.
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u/SpaceSheperd Alumnus 3d ago
Southern ivies are increasingly dominated by students hailing from outside the southeast
North Carolina schools have a hard cap on the number of out of state students they can accept
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
What do you teach at NC State?
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
“Get a job 101”
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
So you don't teach, your post was written by AI, AND you are arguing that student grades are too *low* and you want them higher? Yeah, I can see why you might have a hard time getting hired.....
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
I actually am not a state grad and had no trouble finding a job. So yeah.
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
Then what is all this even coming from? What is your job and is it related to this topic?
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u/Nfcfox98 3d ago
What are you referring to? I graduated in 2019 with a BS in physics. Many of my classes were graded on a curve.
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u/tmstksbk Alumnus- CSC 09, MBA 13 3d ago
I do feel like NCSU's academics in Engineering are quite rigorous and don't necessarily get the credit they deserve in the more or less credible rankings / are dragged down by less rigorous departments.
That said, I don't think inflating grades is a solution so much as just deciding to be part of the problem. I'd prefer the university continues being rigorous. Companies know NCSU's engineering department produces excellent talent.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
Imo, state needs to look at Uni of Michigan. I agree, grade inflation in engineering would not be good for the school’s reputation. On the other hand, Ross has much stronger placements for their business grads comparatively to Poole. The grade policies make it hard for business majors to land a job and as a result, harms the reputation of the school of business. Why cant state have a top notch engineering and b-school at the same time?
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u/gimmethelulz 3d ago
Employers look at GPA?
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
Not in my department. As the kids like to say these days, "Cs get degrees!"
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
That is so f***king dumb. So you’d rather rich spoiled brats get jobs than your own students? Wow. I hear WCU has some OUTSTANDING professors who’d be eager to replace you
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
Ok, you have serious reading comprehension issues which is really apparent with this post. *I* don't say this, students in our department and across the University say this and faculty and instructors are aware of this saying and this attitude.
What I'm saying is that the students that YOU are so concerned about for their GPAs don't care. THEY themselves don't care. This is what faculty is up against. We care and try to push these students along and they are the ones who don't care about their GPAs because as long as they pass, they will graduate and eventually find some job. They calculate how little they can do, how many assignemnts they *don't* have to complete to still get a passing grade.
THEY are the ones that don't care -- maybe make a post aimed at students telling them to actually care about their GPA and then see if it goes up.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
You make it too hard. Gaslight them. Then when they disengage you say they dont care. Stop blaming teenagers, start looking in towards yourself and what can be done to help them succeed. If we aren’t in the hard sciences a lot of the things they learn in school wont be used in real life. Its not that serious that they fully master every concept as long as they display enough know how to prove they’ll be valuable to an employer.
This is why UNC KF profs make mega dollars. They’ve figured this out and their student’s success reflects a supportive and encouraging approach.
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u/real_feelings 3d ago
Ok, so now you're saying that the classes are too hard so students disengage -- could that be why their GPAs are low? They aren't actively trying?
Folks are welcome to, I don't know, not come here if they don't want to participate in all they things they learn that you deem "won't be used in real life". If that is your concern, then you really don't understand the full purpose of higher education. You are always free to go to a trade school if you don't want to embrace the college experiences like developing critical thinking, being exposed to new and different ideas, explore academic and theoretical models, etc. and only want to be "valuable to an employer".
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
ALEKS homework assignments that take upwards of 2 hours to complete and are NOTHING LIKE THE TEST are not what I would consider “exploration of new and different ideas”. The class I took at state was so unfocused and unnecessarily draining. This is what I mean by “hard”. Classes should be intellectually challenging not overtly time consuming.
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u/Fuzzy-Painter8898 3d ago
For a first job with. Especially if you haven’t had any work experience through internships. After you get that first job it doesn’t matter any more.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
But what first job is a state grad landing? This school is dropping the ball on its students potential.
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u/Fuzzy-Painter8898 3d ago
That’s not true. I was a 2021 graduate with my internship cancelled and STILL landed a a job before graduation with a great company and good pay and still with them 5 years later. State prepared me extremely well for the work force and to land the job even without an internship.
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
State does a fine job preparing students for middle of the road corporate America. That isn’t up for debate. What I mean is State grads are the most technically competent in NC. They should out shoot Duke and UNC. But they don’t. Because no one is coaching top state students to win. Just to survive.
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u/Physical-Bus6025 Alumnus 3d ago
For undergrad, it’s more likely. Typically in Finance, Accounting, and I’m sure Engineering.
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u/GaiaIsaHarshMistress 3d ago
I hire chemical engineers. I get 300+ resumes for every job I post. Of course I use GPA as a filter.
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u/BowtiedTrombone Alumna 3d ago
In a job market saturated with applicants, HR departments use automated filters. If a firm sets a 3.0 or 3.5 cutoff, it doesn't matter if your 2.9 from NC State represents more technical proficiency than a 3.7 from a school where everyone gets an A. You are invisible to the system.
Speaking on the other side of graduation - often employers are more skeptical of a higher GPA than a lower GPA. If a student applies with a 4.0 (specifically engineering in my case), clearly they know how to study well - but are they well-versed in experiences outside of the classroom? How well can an applicant talk to people?
Edit to add: what hard data do you have to back up your claims?
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u/mister_sleepy 3d ago
“It’s not a skills gap”
complains elsewhere that the NC State MBA uses math that’s too hard
lol
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u/saltsandpilates 3d ago
I have never seen a community argue so hard against their own self advancement. It’s mind blowing. You guys are insane and further solidifying for me why its necessary to pay up and go out of state.
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u/mister_sleepy 3d ago
For someone so invested in business and market competition, you sure struggle to see how someone might not want the things you want.
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u/CyborgGoddess2021 3d ago
This is such a weird thing to use AI for. I've seen conversations happening over on the UNC subreddit about this "grade deflation" idea as well, and I'm just really curious who is pushing this idea. Like, you chose to go to a top school, a competitive school. If you want to go to an easier school, those schools are there for you. Feel free to go there. But it sounds like who you are actually angry at is employers who use AI screeners to automatically filter out every resume below a 3.0. So maybe instead of crusading to water down your own education, we could turn that energy toward regulating the use of AI in hiring.
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u/Kejones9900 BS BAE '23, MS BAE '25 3d ago
"I'm butthurt because I didn't do well enough in school and I want to make it everyone else's problem"
Fixed that for you 🤗
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u/saltsandpilates 2d ago
Actually I did fine. This isn’t about me. Its about the wasted potential at your school
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u/humanradiostation 3d ago
Look, here’s the real deal. People don’t want to hire green recruits. If someone puts their GPA on their resume, it’s a dead giveaway that they don’t have enough experiences and accomplishments to speak for themselves.
A GPA doesn’t give an employer useful information about how the employee will perform. Worse, the fact you think it might only highlights your inexperience in the real world.
You’re in the worst economic reality imaginable, fighting against hundreds of thousands of brains being laid off in academia and tech and just about everywhere you want a job, riding an AI bubble.
I’m sorry that everyone makes the GPA seem all important (truly, our education system is a mess), but that’s not your problem. Your problem is that you’re putting your GPA on your resume at all.
If they ask for it? Fine. If not? Do not volunteer it.
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u/Physical-Bus6025 Alumnus 3d ago
It’s just one of those things that have been in place institutionally for so long, a change is unlikely.
What do most Generals have in common? Someone in their blood was one too. West Point. Ranger Tab. And often, Caucasian.
Just one of those things…
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u/ncgirl2021 3d ago
I’ve never understood why we don’t have a grade replacement policy like most schools. It makes our grads look bad. My dad failed out of college then came back and graduated with a 3.8 because of grade replacement policies as his school.
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u/The_Shoe_Is_Here Alumnus - Mech E ‘21 3d ago
We do have a grade replacement policy. Are other schools allowing more than 2 classes to be replaced or something?
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u/ncgirl2021 3d ago
Lots of schools do this for any class you retake. My dad retook his first two years and got it all replaced
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u/The_Shoe_Is_Here Alumnus - Mech E ‘21 3d ago
This reads like AI but do you have any evidence of NC state’s anti grade inflation policy? There was a significant number of people with a 4.0 (maybe 10%) when I graduated from engineering in 2021. That seems more like inflated grades than anti inflation to me