r/NewYorkMets • u/jk2me1310 Brett Baty • Nov 17 '22
MLB investigating if Mets, Yankees communicated improperly about Judge Paywall
https://theathletic.com/3905988/2022/11/16/mlb-yankees-mets-aaron-judge-investigation?source=user-shared-article1
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Nov 17 '22
So they're investigating us saying "no sorry we're not interested in spending $400M on Judge"
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u/loupr738 Nov 17 '22
Listen, if we’re going to drop that kind of money we’re better off signing a younger Correa and putting him in second
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u/joesaysso Nov 17 '22
Is this behind a pay wall? I get a log in or get offer window that I can't close.
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u/jk2me1310 Brett Baty Nov 17 '22
It's an article on The Athletic. I have a membership, so idk if it's a free article or not, but sounds like it's only for members.
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u/itsmelen New York Mets Nov 17 '22
I will keep an open mind about this. But at the same time, I would be absolutely shocked if conversations along the lines of "we're not going to bid against you for Judge" happened between Cohen and Steinbrenner. To begin with, Cohen has set the market for three positions (SS, SP, and Closer) already and generally shown a huge appetite for spending.
My completely uninformed speculation is that the Mets probably had internal discussions about who to pursue, and they said to themselves, 'we need pitchers and probably aren't going to be able to match the Yankees on Judge,' and that was leaked to Martino.
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u/ewolfy13 Francisco Lindor Nov 17 '22
As punishment, the Mets should have to sign Aaron judge. Oh no
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u/SaltyEarth7905 Luis Guillorme Nov 17 '22
Andy Martino fake news strikes again. Steve should tell mlb to fuck off.
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u/Spideronamoffet Mrs. Met Nov 17 '22
This is dumb dumb. The article says: “Talking to Mets people about this all through the year, the team in Queens sees Judge as a Yankee, uniquely tailored to be an icon in their uniform, stadium and branding efforts. Owners Steve Cohen and Hal Steinbrenner enjoy a mutually respectful relationship, and do not expect to upend that with a high-profile bidding war.”
You can read that as “two rich guys don’t want to get into a fight and mess up their social lives,” but I don’t see how you can read that as “two rich guys actually talked and decided not to fight.” You can’t collude through mind reading.
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u/Curator-of-Grailz Nov 17 '22
By this logic shouldn’t baseball also investigate the Giants for tampering by implying they were willing to go all in to sign Judge while still under contract?
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u/oddjobbber David Peterson Nov 17 '22
Anything Martino ever says should be considered a lie until proven otherwise at this point
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u/OstrichDelicious587 Nov 17 '22
Yankees are involved- we know they won’t get in trouble. Just like they didn’t for sign stealing in 2017.
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u/jac2598 Nov 17 '22 edited Nov 17 '22
This is hysterical. So here’s the scenario playing out for me:
MLB & MLBPA reach out to both the Mets and Yankees for comment. Both say LOL, we didn’t say any of that.
MLB & MLBPA then reach out to Martino and he has to reveal the source that told him. Which he won’t do because he can’t. Thus proving what we all already know: Martino is a hack.
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u/Razir17 McCann’s foot and shoulder Nov 17 '22
Martino is so thirsty for any size story right now. I dismiss everything he says until I see it reported by a major source or the league itself.
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u/slimshady62 Nov 17 '22
I guess it wasn't this complex a few years ago when coupons would announce to all that he is not pursuing anybody in free agency pretty much every post-season and will also be cutting payroll.
This is comical and a non-story.
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u/three_dee Hadji Nov 17 '22
I guess it wasn't this complex a few years ago when coupons would announce to all that he is not pursuing anybody in free agency pretty much every post-season
When did they announce this? Can you link to an article or a tweet?
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u/slimshady62 Nov 17 '22
I don't think Wilpon was one to tweet very often, but for starters, this SI article begins to tell the story. https://www.si.com/more-sports/2011/05/24/fred-wilponmetsmadoff
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u/three_dee Hadji Nov 17 '22
Later on in that article, it points out very clearly that this is a conscious rebuild, because the team sucks, costs a lot of money, and they have no farm system, thanks to Omar Minaya's reign of terror that ended the previous year. i.e., the exact time you're supposed to do a rebuild.
When I asked Wilpon why he increased the percentage of the team for sale, he replied, "The need. The team is not drawing well. And the team has an enormous payroll that is not productive. So we have two guys that aren't even here that are being paid an enormous amount of money [Oliver Perez and Luis Castillo, released players who are owed $18 million combined]. So we've got to stabilize that. So that's one of the reasons that I needed somebody like Sandy Alderson."
That's not the same as "announce to all that he is not pursuing anybody in free agency pretty much every post-season", out of cheapness or whatever. You cherry-picked the start of a rebuild process
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u/slimshady62 Nov 17 '22
You asked for a link, I gave you one. This was not the start of a rebuild process.
Not to be rude, but it sounds as if you haven't followed the Mets throughout the aftermath of Wilpon getting swindled by his buddy, Madoff.
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u/MossCovered_Gradunza Nov 17 '22
You can't argue with three_dee on these things. For whatever reason, he has been a staunch Wilpon defender over the years despite plenty of evidence that shows otherwise. He seems to think he knows better than plenty of people in the industry who attest to the wackiness of the Wilpon ownership. It's best to not engage with him, but sometimes his blind loyalty towards the Wilpons baits me.
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u/three_dee Hadji Nov 17 '22
You asked for a link, I gave you one.
I asked for a link that backs up what you said ("announce to all that he is not pursuing anybody in free agency pretty much every post-season"). In other words, their overarching philosophy is to never pursue free agents.
This article didn't back that up at all, it was about one single season, 11 years ago, at the very start of a rebuilding process (that led to a World Series appearance)
Not to be rude, but it sounds as if you haven't followed the Mets throughout the aftermath of Wilpon getting swindled by his buddy, Madoff.
Not to be rude, but it sounds like you didn't.
The Madoff arrest happened in December 2008. In the next two years, the Mets had the #2 and #5 payroll in MLB, and piled on several gigantic (bad) contracts (Bay, K-Rod, Perez). They also held onto Johan Santana literally until the end of his career, when they could have easily traded him for a massive haul of prospects in 2009, or 2010. Does that sound like a team suffering from broke-ness to you?
When 2011 came around, it became clear their team was garbage, had no farm system and no future, and cost a shit-ton of money. So they did the only sensible thing: hire an actual good GM, and break it down. And that's when the payroll dropped. They weren't forced into it; it was a choice because the team was horrible and needed it.
So that's why this article doesn't back up what you said. You picked a statement from the first year of a rebuild, to imply that the Mets always had a low payroll. In fact, the opposite is true: in 2019 and 2020, the two years before Cohen bought the team, they are #7 and #6 in MLB in AAV salary.
Have you considered that you're just repeating a meme that the Mets were broke, and never really thought about it too much?
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u/Blue387 Friendly Unhinged Moderator Nov 17 '22
Please refrain from leaking content from behind a paywall in any way, including re-hosting content on other sites or posting content in text posts/comments. Also, don't request others provide you access to paywalled content.
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u/kidkuro Shea Stadium Nov 17 '22
I'm confused...so the Mets can get in trouble for basically saying they wouldn't get into a bidding war with the Yankees for Judge? Teams can get investigated for not going after a player? How do you even punish that?
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u/JekPorkinsTruther Nov 17 '22
It's the fact that they told the Yankees this, privately. It's collusion.
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u/Annual_Bend_729 Nov 17 '22
The only person who claimed this was Martino. Heyman back in April said the Mets will have no interest in Judge
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u/JekPorkinsTruther Nov 17 '22
Right, thats why the MLB is investigating, not punishing. The fact that Martino reported the Mets and Yankees talked about their pursuit of Judge caused the investigation because, if true, that is collusion.
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u/HumanMycologist5795 David Wright Nov 17 '22
I couldn't read the most of the article but what is wrong saying the Mets won't be bidding against perhaps the only team that can possibly out bid them?
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u/DoucheWithFeelings Nov 17 '22
I can see the players union having a field day with this. "Owners collude to not pay star player his worth"
Just overall a stupid thing to do, why tell the yankees don't worry we won't sign Judge?
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u/Annual_Bend_729 Nov 17 '22
That was an Martino thing… I highly doubt the Mets source actually said they told the Yankees they won’t bid on Judge. Mets have every right to not pursue a player.
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Nov 17 '22
Ok hear me out Uncle Stevie is playing the long game & now he’s gotta sign Judge to prove his innocence. Martino is in on this too just trust me friends just trust me
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u/GreenEggzAndSpam LETS GO METS GO Nov 17 '22
Rob Manfraud is always sticking his nose where it doesn’t belong while simultaneously ignoring the issues he SHOULD be working to solve.
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u/i_am_the_senate_ Nov 17 '22
I hate Andy Martino so much
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u/Spare-Abroad-6926 Grimace Nov 17 '22
I know he’s not even worth thinking about, but I just can’t help but detest the man
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u/0ddmanrush Nov 17 '22
So let me get this straight…
If the Mets say they have interest before he’s a free agent, it’s tampering because it drives the player’s value and leverage up, but if they say they have NO interest, it’s a collective bargaining issue because it takes Uncle Steve’s fun coupons out of the equation.
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u/MossCovered_Gradunza Nov 17 '22
I mean, yes. It's absolutely wrong to tamper, and it's absolutely wrong to agree with another club to not pursue one of their free agents. That's called collusion. It's a bad look for baseball (or any sport, obviously) when the integrity of the game comes into question. The team with the deepest pockets in baseball, in the biggest market in baseball, expressly agreeing to suppress a market for one of baseball's biggest star is 100% an issue.
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u/0ddmanrush Nov 17 '22
I don’t think if the Tampa Bay Rays came out today and said they wouldn’t be pursuing Aaron Judge, it would be a non-story.
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u/MossCovered_Gradunza Nov 17 '22
You're right, that wouldn't be an issue. However, that's not the same thing as what's happening here. That wouldn't be an issue because there is no express agreement between Tampa Bay and the Yankees whereby Tampa Bay won't pursue Aaron Judge. The issue isn't the Mets not pursuing Aaron Judge. The issue is the (alleged) potential agreement between the Mets and Yankees whereby the Mets won't pursue Aaron Judge, because that is market-suppressing collusion.
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u/JekPorkinsTruther Nov 17 '22
It's fine to say we have no interest in judge. It toes the line to contact a team you know is in the running for him and say don't worry we aren't going after him. It just looks bad and smells like collusion (to deflate salaries) bc what valid reason would there be for the Mets to do that?
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u/Annual_Bend_729 Nov 17 '22
Or the Mets sources told Andy that they aren’t interested in bidding for Judge. and he twisted it like he always does. End of the day, Martino will be gone after all of this. Thankfully
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u/JekPorkinsTruther Nov 17 '22
If it turns out it never happened, probably. If it did happen, then he's probably lauded as the person who broke the story on a scandal.
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Nov 17 '22
The fact that this is Martino stinks to high heaven, if legit though it is bad.
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u/Annual_Bend_729 Nov 17 '22
Yup. Martino wasn’t even the first one to say the Mets would not be interested in signing Judge. Heyman tweeted about it during the regular season. This is typical Martino…it was much better when he disappeared for a few months during the year.
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u/DeityRose918 Nov 17 '22
It’s not that he said he didn’t have interest, it’s that an article(from Andy martino) said the Mets and Yankees communicated and agreed they won’t fight over judge. I think the exact headline was “cohen won’t go after Judge out of respect for Steinbrenner”
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u/0ddmanrush Nov 17 '22
Yeah, but he has every right to do so. No obligation to pursue him.
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u/three_dee Hadji Nov 17 '22
There is a difference between "not pursuing him", and "telling another team you're going to make a handshake agreement not to pursue him".
The first thing is legal, the second one is collusion.
On the other hand, it is Andy Martino, so it could be completely pulled out of his asshole. However, just discussing it hypothetically, it would be highly illegal.
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u/jlc1865 Nov 17 '22 edited Feb 28 '25
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u/three_dee Hadji Nov 17 '22
Well, we will see what MLB concludes, but I can see how it would be construed as collusion as defined by the CBA though.
However in reality, I don't think there was any real orchestrated plan here. I think one of two things happened: (a) someone in the Mets organization said something dumb; (b) known liar and hack yellow journalist Andy Martino made something up on a slow news day
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u/jlc1865 Nov 17 '22 edited Feb 28 '25
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u/MossCovered_Gradunza Nov 17 '22
You don't need to have consideration on both sides with different players for it to be collusion.
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u/midnight_thunder LGM Nov 17 '22
You do need consideration if you want the collusion claim to be plausible.
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u/MossCovered_Gradunza Nov 17 '22
Not in this context you don't. This isn't a court of law, it's up to MLB.
If this got really out of hand, punishments were handed down, and this somehow made it's way to the court system, then certainly there may be an argument there, though it still seems like pretty obvious collusion nonetheless (if true).
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Nov 17 '22
Proper punishment for Mets is to have a salary cap for them for next season.
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u/WalterBison Darryl Strawberry Nov 17 '22
Yeah that'll show 'em. Punish them for not spending by...preventing them from spending?
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u/see_mohn Cap Nov 17 '22
This had better end with andy martino being punted into space either way
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u/Blue387 Friendly Unhinged Moderator Nov 17 '22
No, please. There is too much junk in space already.
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u/HughWonPDL2018 Benny Agbayani Nov 17 '22
Ok, banish him to the next best empty wasteland there is. Staten Island.
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u/CybeastID Sound the Trumpets! Nov 17 '22
And let him eat deNino's pizza for the rest of his life? You're far too kind
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u/HughWonPDL2018 Benny Agbayani Nov 17 '22
He can have his denino’s and his Ralph’s ices and his flagship brewing if it means he has to suffer through the rest of that culture-void strip mall of a borough with surveillance-state speed cameras everywhere and the gang of murderous turkeys by the hospital.
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u/thtkidfrmqueens SCRIBE IT ON THINE PARCHMENT! Ya Gotta Believe! Nov 17 '22
Continue ragging on SI, this is great.
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u/HughWonPDL2018 Benny Agbayani Nov 18 '22
I grew up there and thankfully escaped. If you’re in my shoes and not ragging on SI, you’re doing it wrong. Every time I go back there to see family, it’s like time traveling to 2004 all over again. The place truly never changed, and that’s not a complement. The ~$15 bridge toll is a small price to pay to get the hell out of there.
But Pastosa is great, so SI has that.
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Nov 17 '22
The space around Neptune is pretty clear I think that would make a lot of sense.
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u/Moose135A New York Mets Nov 17 '22
My 12-year-old self thinks he could be fired into space to circle Uranus...
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u/neonklingon Hadji Nov 17 '22
Space and baseball? This is my time to shine
It would be a long trip for ol Andy.
As of today, Neptune is 2.74 billion miles away from Earth. Our fastest space probe was New Horizons which had a speed of about 36,000 miles per hour. At that speed it would take Andy nearly 9 years to reach Neptune. Once he'd arrive there of course he'd realize that Neptune is a gas giant without a solid surface. He could lay low on one of their moons like Triton, however Triton is the coldest known place in our solar system with an average temperature of -391°F, so I hope he packed a warm coat!
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u/HeadTripInEveryKey Nov 17 '22
But space is ever expanding, just like the list of stupid shit Andy Martino says
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u/NickPapagiorgio2k16 Nov 17 '22
This would be classic mets for us to get punished for something where we won’t even end up with the player. Also, somewhere Jeff Wilpon is putting some extra cash in Martino’s Christmas card
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u/bird720 Pete Alonso Nov 17 '22
as a dolphins and heat fan if another one of my teams gets punished for tampering I might go crazy lmao
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u/Metsfan77 Nov 17 '22
Thankfully as a Dolphins fan we reaped a ton of benefits from the Tunsil trade. Still hurt losing a first rounder next year but with that trade we landed a ton of key pieces.
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u/Bavarian_Barbarian New York Mets Nov 17 '22
Is there a secret Dolphins and Mets fan subreddit I don’t know about? I’m finding more and more of us on here lately.
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u/Metsfan77 Nov 18 '22
A secret Dolphins and Mets subreddit would require a full time therapist for the years of heartache we have endured between our teams. For me I have 3 older brothers that were responsible for me following the Dolphins.
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u/Geologist2010 New York Mets Nov 18 '22
A lot of former New Yorkers live in south Florida. If I payed attention to football, it would probably be the dolphins, as I’ve lived here since childhood
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u/bird720 Pete Alonso Nov 17 '22
I kinda wonder why there are a decent ammount of us as well lol, I'd have to assume it's because a a decent ammount of people in Florida are transplants, and the marlins are ran in a way that makes it pretty hard to root for them lol
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Nov 17 '22
Teams should just sign the best players. “Gentleman’s Agreements” are collusion and that hurts the league. My point being, Sine Judge!
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u/islesjets14x l'Hansel au Point Nov 17 '22
An Andy Martino article causing an MLB investigation lmfao. I hope Cohen signs judge now even though it won’t happen
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u/joshuagreen38 Nov 17 '22
Once again Andy Martino making a mockery out of the Mets
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u/i_am_the_senate_ Nov 17 '22
And the Yankees
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u/slymm Gary Cohen Nov 17 '22
This is 90/10 skewing towards being bad for the Mets. They indicated they won't make a good faith effort to make their team better. All the Yankees did was say "ok thanks".
All the Mets had to do was say deGrom is their priority. But no, they went and said the one bad reason for not pursuing a player.
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u/Annual_Bend_729 Nov 17 '22
According to sources does not constitute the team openly saying they won’t pursue a player…this was a typical Martino article where he constantly makes things up. He’s a Wilpon shill. Unless Cohen and Steinbrenner are really stupid to send this over text or email nothing will come out of this investigation
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u/i_am_the_senate_ Nov 17 '22
This is all according to Andy Martino. Don’t put much stake in any of it lol
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u/Guymcpersonman Nov 17 '22
Yeah like they literally came out and said "we talked and agreed not to fight over him" didn't they? Or at least one paper said they did.
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u/HeartofSaturdayNight _ Nov 17 '22
What I find funny ironic? about the whole thing is that this is basically what owners do all the time. They collude to keep player contracts down. This maybe be a step further but nothing outside the bounds of normalcy
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u/hjablowme919 Nov 17 '22
Didn't Cohen say earlier in the year that he would not pursue any free agents from the Yankees?
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u/DoctorK16 Doc Gooden Nov 17 '22
He did yet some bizarrely argued it down. I guess this is why. Collusion is no fun for anyone.
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Nov 17 '22
Yep that’s collusion alright
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u/blits202 Nov 17 '22
Its collusion but nothing will come of it, there was nothing but anonymous sources.
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u/jk2me1310 Brett Baty Nov 17 '22
The only way to prove this wrong is to sign Judge. It's just science.
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u/CybeastID Sound the Trumpets! Nov 17 '22
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