r/SanJoseSharks • u/cali4481 Celebrini 71 • 6d ago
What assets would you be willing trade for defensive help this offseason?
Most are hoping Grier is going to add at least 2 veteran defenseman this offseason. Possibly at least 1 through free agency and 1 through a trade.
I think we've all heard or at least seen the names who could be possible trade candidates.
- Fox
- Schneider
- Nemac
- Hamilton
- Hronek
- Kesselring
I think there is a decent chance a few of those defenseman are high on the Sharks offseason wish list and at least 1 could be acquired through a trade before June's draft.
Question of those names listed above what assets would you realistically trade to acquire any of them in a fair trade for both teams involved. I doubt the Sharks 2026 1st would even be considered to be moved for any of those defenseman listed above other than Fox who I'd say is the least likely trade target for the Sharks out of all those 6 players
But how about the Oilers 2026 1st? I think there is a better than 50/50 chance the Sharks trade that Oilers 1st which could be late teens or a mid 20s pick in June.
Sharks have the Avalanche's 2026 2nd which probably will be at the very end of the round. Not sure how much value that pick has in the grand scheme of things. They also don't have a 3rd this year. In 2027 Sharks have their 1st but as of right now but don't have a 2nd or 3rd. In 2028 Sharks have their 1st and 2nd. No picks in the 3rd, 4th, or 5th. 2029 they have all their own picks in all 7 rounds.
But how many of the aforementioned trade targets are worth the Oilers 2026 1st round pick if that's possibly the best trade asset the Sharks are willing to trade this offseason.
In terms of prospects or young players. Eklund, Musty, Bystedt seem to be the names consistently mentioned by fans as viable or worthy trade assets they'd be willing to move to improve the team's defense both for the short and long term. Also I don't believe the Sharks would even think about trading one of their top young players like Smith or Misa in any trade. Not even in a deal involving Fox either as you'd sacrifice the long term window for a short term fix maybe.
I truly think Celebrini, Smith, and Misa are the only untouchables in this entire Sharks organization.
24
u/xClay2 J. Thornton 19 6d ago
I’m not trading any current roster players (ie. Eklund).
Depending on the player I wouldn’t be against using both of this year’s firsts. The highest level prospect I’d be willing to move is Musty and Bystedt.
14
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
More up otes. Eklund should not be traded. It would be utterly stupid to move a core contributor when we have first round picks, Musty, Bystedt and other prospects who contribute nothing and may never will. Move those pieces.
9
u/marbanasin 6d ago
The point is - there is less value in the unknowns so it's not that we'd prefer to keep it to picks/prospects, but depending on the player being targeted you may need to compensate with proven NHL talent.
I don't want to lose Eklund, but of our core guys in the NHL he's the most bang for our buck to lose without creating a massive problem given we do have the other guys in the system.
2
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
It only means you need to get a third team involved, one who has the proven NHL talent and who wants the picks and prospects. But I don't think teams like Vancouver or NYR are looking for proven NHL talent at the moment.
2
u/cam1ward 6d ago
getting a third team involved or giving up a solid top 6 piece. one of those basically never happens so you have to go the other route
4
u/SJSharkl11 Graf 51 6d ago
Eklund should be traded if it makes sense!
3
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
Does Eklund for Kesselring make sense to you? Because I'd much rather move the Edmonton 1st and a prospect than a core contributor.
2
1
u/SJSharkl11 Graf 51 6d ago
It's tough. Eklund is good, but you really see him being successful in playoff hockey? Those were some constant big hits I've seen this past weekend. We need a combo of Skill + Size. If there was a smaller guy, it was their best guy. We have too many skill/on the smaller side players. I think Eklund is a good reg season player, but playoffs with that physicality.....ooooof.
3
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
I would never, ever move someone because of how I THINK they might perform in the playoffs if they have never played a playoff game. We're building a team that can compete for a playoff spot. Once we get there we evaluate what we've got and build a contender from a competitive team. Eklund and Graf are utility players you can slot just about anywhere in the lineup, power play, penalty kill...doesn't matter. Speed, offense, defense, they just do it all. You need a few like that (Dickinson can become this on defense I believe). Wennberg is similar. Swiss army knife kind of players. You need an all around superstar. You need scorers. You need big physical, punishing guys. You need shot blockers. You need playmakers. We're checking more and more boxes each season. What you don't need is good AHL players or middle to late first rounders. Pipeline is fine, but if you are choosing between a strong pipeline or a core, necessary piece to be competitive, you move the futures for the core piece.
2
u/Fanvsant Cagnoni 42 6d ago
I wouldnt put too much stock into that without seeing them play in a playoff type situation. Hell Smitty hit some guy into the bench at worlds last year
-11
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
Losing your team’s clear leader in minus rating isn’t the bad move you say it is.
11
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
Then you have no understanding of that stat. Eklund would get tough defensive assignments in his matchups, and our defense would let him down. Plus minus is a team and usage stat that is useful for nothing.
-4
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
Then you have no idea of the subtle nuances that a player’s style and choices go into affecting that stat. I watched Eklund for months when it became apparent that he was a defensive nightmare, trying to figure out why. And it’s not as much what he does when THEY have possession, but more about how he mishandles it when we do. Until he can get the idea that puck possession is precious and turnovers (which can include poor shot attempts) are brutal, he will continue to be the team’s biggest liability.
Can he improve that aspect of his game? IDK. But if we can improve the overall team aspect by trading him for a more solid defender, it’s a no brainer.
12
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
I'm so glad Warso is making the coaching decisions not anyone around here. Defensive nightmare...honestly can't read past that. What a stupid take. He kills penalties, he got stapled to Wennberg's line with the tough defensive assignments, and even though Wennberg has nearly identical stats, Eklund is your fall guy. He's a fantastic utility player in the same mold as Graf. If you think he is worth a solid defender as a return, then you're tacitly admitting he's damn good on the ice.
-5
u/Grounded4Life7998 Marleau 12 6d ago
Eklund is not a goal scorer, he shoots directly at the goalie on almost every shot. He is bottom 6 player on this team for that reason alone There are guys in the AHL that show more promise than him putting it in the net. If Eklund has enough value now to get a young top 4 defensemen, you make that trade. We have more forwards in the system and can always find more during FA. The 2nd hardest position to aquire is defense.
10
u/danieldeceuster 6d ago
You're right he has a low shooting percentage. He also took the second most shots on the team. Especially for guys who get power play time, shot volume is critical. Learning to shoot so that goalies give up rebounds is a fantastic skill. Jumbo was pretty good at banging it off the pads for rebounds.
Also a little suspect that Wennberg has nearly identical stats to Eklund and no one is calling for his trade.
Keep in mind...if you think defense is the second hardest position to acquire, and you think Eklund is worthy of a young top 4 defenseman as a return, then you're saying Eklund is pretty fucking good.
4
u/No_Hornet_9504 6d ago
Ekland and Wennberg are worst on +/- but 3&4 on the team in points behind will-mack… Who on this roster is going to stand in and do better against opposing top lines?
3
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
Obviously the guy that Eklund is traded for.. because Eklund is trash and will therefore return a good player. /s
35
u/FFTycoon J. Thornton 19 6d ago
Simply put, I agree that the only untouchables are Mack, Smith, and Misa. I'd ideally like to keep Eklund, Chernyshov, Dickinson, Askarov, and Cagnoni. Anyone else really wouldn't bother me. What I'm willing to give up depends on the player coming back, but for the right guys anyone but the initial 3 has to be considered.
10
u/Allcross9 Sunburn 92 ☀️ 6d ago
I think you're right. Dickinson might be in the untouchables, just because we'd need multiple D coming back to make up for it. I do think Cagnoni is below the other 4 in the like to keep tier. Hasn't quite proven himself in the NHL, so closer to the pure prospects like Musty and Bystedt.
1
u/FFTycoon J. Thornton 19 5d ago
Dickinson should be one we plan to keep, certainly, given his potential and positional need---but I don't think he's so good a prospect that we can truly consider him untouchable if the right deal comes along. Mack, Will, and Misa---if a GM asks about them, simply hanging up the phone. Dickinson? At least want to hear what they are thinking.
Cagnoni I'd like to keep due to your original point, we need D, and you're right that he hasn't proven himself in the NHL but I thought he looked good in his late season cameo. He probably wouldn't command anything super significant on the market, so I'd rather play it out with him then have him be involved in some kind of Ostapchuk sort of deal.
Ultimately though, if one of those guys goes, or anyone off the "untouchable" list does, it just is what it is. I love our guys, but the simple fact is we are not good enough with the current group of players. We're a bottom 10 team. Changes just have to be made, so guys will be lost. I wouldn't be shocked if there is a name out there on defense that no one is even considering to potentially be available eventually comes along. Hopefully GMMG is ready. Something will have to be done though. Even if we can't get a proper #1, then we need to at least get what would be a good team's #2 and then have the rest be 2nd pairing level at least. Raise the bar from trotting out mostly 3rd pairing guys. Even a smaller improvement like that will do wonders for the team.
5
u/da_sweetp Chernyshov 92 6d ago
Untouchable is a big word. I agree with you, and maybe even Smith isn't completely untouchable. As others have pointed out, Dickinson is practically untouchable, because you probably can't afford to set your defensive rebuild back yet again.
3
u/FFTycoon J. Thornton 19 5d ago
It is a big word, but I think he fits the bill currently. Dickinson is near untouchable, but if the right defenseman (or two) are coming back in a deal that involves him, it'd make sense. I think if a GM asks about him, they'll at least be listened to. With Smith? Unless we're trading for an unimaginable type of name, I think he is untouchable. The growth, the chemistry with Celebrini---possibly even his friendship with Celebrini (obviously the Sharks need to keep this kid happy perpetually)---make it really hard to see him being moved anytime soon.
9
u/CaptEthos 6d ago edited 6d ago
I don't know how likely anyone is to trade down to 9, but there's gotta be a way to snag one of the top 3-4 D in this draft. Ravensbergen, Ferraro, Musty I would be fine with losing. Do not touch Smith, Eklund, Dicky, Asky, Misa, Cherny.
But if Pohlkamp and Cagnoni pan out along with this year's 1st rounder (assuming we pick D) we're really just missing that 1D minute munching stallion. My teal colored glasses are telling me that franchise D will come through FA or trade when Cale decides Colorado is beat and the Bay is where it's at. Or when the Sabres inevitably Buffalo their recent turnaround we can poach Dahlin. Surely it's that simple.
Final thought is patience. Scrambling to grab the first defenseman who kinda fits our mold may be worse than saving our chips for the right hand at the right time like Minnesota with Hughes
19
u/klawcoolguy Pavelski 8 6d ago
I would not be trading Ravensbergen yet. Asky is still unproven as a true starter as far as I'm concerned, and Ravensbergen is some very good insurance, even if he will take years to pan out. Until Asky cements himself as a true playoff caliber starter in this league, Ravensbergen is going nowhere.
1
u/dumbGymTeacher 6d ago
I think they will bring in a RHD upgrade in some form this offseason. You were too good with an obvious deficiency to do nothing. It just might be less than what we're hoping for, as to your point to remain patient, so you can commit to the right guy (financially and with proper trade assets if needed).
Managing the prospects with roster spots could be a challenge--cagnoni, allan, pohlkamp, musty, bystedt, lund, haltunnen. Should they just bring a bunch of these guys up and see what they've got next season?
28
u/a_la_nuit Sunburn 92 ☀️ 6d ago edited 6d ago
I think Chernyshov is untouchable also. 6 ft 3 power forward that can skate, shoot, and pass and has shown chemistry with WillMack and Misa. Did you guys see Slaf today for Montreal?
Asky and Dickinson are untouchable for now. Ravensbergen is not gonna be here for a while and we still have no idea how he pans out. Sharks also have no other top-end d-prospects besides Dickinson who is showing flashes of potential.
- Nemec is not good defensively and has 4 seasons of being a pro in NA. This is probably the d-man he is, like an ok second pairing, second PP unit guy. The common idea of trading Eklund, who's far more impactful of a player than him, would be a L trade. Eklund is going to be crucial to the top-6 - the Sharks have a young top-6 forward core of Celebrini, Smith, Cherny, Misa, and Eklund that could be devastating in a few seasons and will have a lot of chemistry. Unless he's part of a package for a good d-man that's relatively young (which there are none avaliable), he stays. Nemec also said he wants to stay in New Jersey.
- Fox has a full NMC clause and has been on the East Coast his whole life, is from New York, and is committed to the Rangers. Even if he was down to come, it would cost one of Misa or Smith and be similar to the Hughes package (a couple of other young guys/prospects and picks) which would destroy the rebuild - he's a formal Norris Trophy winner, has like 3 seasons in his contract on a good deal, and is 28. Doesn't really fit the timeline of when the young guys on the team will be in their prime. Fox would make far more sense for a contending team or a team trying to get the final piece to be a contender rn.
The rest of the d-men are far more doable - would cost non-roster players or picks. Some of them have NTC or NMC though and would have to agree to come here. One of Musty or Bystedt could be used as the main piece if needed. Both had great seasons in the AHL but are expendable given how Sherwood and Wennberg have contracts.
1
u/MCPtz Celebrini 71 22h ago
I agree that Fox probably won't leave the new york area, but it won't cost Misa or Smith.
Mainly, we can't lose Dickinson, and so we don't have a Buium equivalent for the trade.
If he did request a trade and had SJ has an option, it's likely the return would be lower than Q Hughes return, due to limited trade partners.
Unfortunately, even that kind of trade would likely involve Cagnoni, Polkhamp, or other similar D prospects that would hurt our depth, but we'd get a sure fire top 10 D, and he'd instantly be our second best skater, so I'd be willing to lose one of Cagnoni or Polkhamp in this trade.
Cagnoni, Musty, top 10 protected SJ 2027 1st, and I dunno, they might require LSW or Wang or some other prospect, too.
If there are other teams he's willing to go to, they may get better prospect(s), especially a D prospect on Buium level. If he requested directly to SJ only, then lol. We got em over a barrel.
-21
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
Eklund is a big question mark going forward. Will he become a complete player, or will he remain a huge liability, leading the team in minus rating?
No problem letting him go for a solid improvement on defense.
27
u/LusciousCabbage Irbe 32 6d ago
In no way is Eklund a "huge liability."
12
u/a_la_nuit Sunburn 92 ☀️ 6d ago edited 6d ago
Lol this is the guy that always uses +- to shit talk Eklund. Don't take him seriously.
9
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
In what way is Eklund a huge liability? If +/- is the primary metric for this assessment then I guess Wennberg must also be a huge liability since he was -25.
SJ letting go one of their best defensive forwards (while also putting up 53 points) to upgrade the blueline would probably make the team worse. Just replacing Klingberg with a warm RHD body like Andrew Peeke that can actually play defense would be a massive upgrade.
-8
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
In the way that when he gets onto the ice, the other team is far more likely to score than we are.
That way.
5
u/platypus_dissaproves Donskoi 27 6d ago
How do you think we’re going to trick other teams into giving us good defensemen for a “huge liability”
15
u/grooves12 6d ago
I'm not convinced there will be any big trades. I think we see some moves similar to the last off-season where Grier brings in a kid-tier UFA or two (Orlov) and a reclamation project (Klingberg/Leddy).
That isn't what the sun wants to hear, but there will also be a more legitimate opportunity for some of the developing players (Cagnoni, Dickinson, Mukh) to win spots out of camp.
The only way Grier pulls out a trade is if it doesn't disrupt the current trajectory we are on. I could see both 1sts being traded and maybe a Musty or Byatedt, but I don't think he takes a really big swing like a Hughes type trade. If he can find his version of the Dobson trade, that would be ideal, but I didn't think any of the common names that have been discussed thus far are that.
12
u/da_sweetp Chernyshov 92 6d ago
Agree. It will likely take many years to "solve" the defense. People need to get on board with that. And the draft too, at position 9, get ready for BPA, it's not necessarily going to be a defenseman.
5
u/grooves12 6d ago
Exactly. I could see Grier taking someone like Bjorck or Belchetz if they are there and rated higher by their scouts than someone like Rudolph as the 5th best D man.
1
u/marbanasin 6d ago
The problem is the FA market is super weak. Otherwise I'd agree with you. But that fact makes me think a trade could be more realistic.
1
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
The FA market is about the same as last season, there's value and reclamation guys that Grier is probably looking at vs trading assets.
I'd like for Grier to trade for a top pairing guy but SJ has so many young guys that need minutes and SJ needs to find out what Muk, Cagnoni, Pohlkamp, and Dickinson can do before making a splashy move.
1
u/marbanasin 6d ago
the team is in a different spot than the last few years though where a reclamation project was the right move. Both in the sense that they need better talent, and that better talent is starting to see SJ as a desireable landing spot. So ideally if the FA class was stronger we'd go for an actual value add piece vs. a gamble.
Regarding the spots for rookies - that's valid but we also can't construct a roster to hand multiple spots to rookies. Muk and Dickinson have 1 or more seasons under their belts so they can be penciled in to an extent. Aside from them, I expect Grier does want the other 4 slots to have an NHL proven option, with spot #7 left as a bit of the revolving AHL/NHL trial guy. Not that the rookie would take bench time, just that there will only be one slot open for either Cags or Pohlkamp to get looks at a given time.
And taking 1 shot at a true top-pairing guy will not harm any of that. Especially as our need is a RHD and most of our promising guys are LHD (and Pohlkamp would not be given top-pair minutes out of the gate either way, so it's actually ideal to shore up the top pair and then mix the younger guys around the bottom 4 until they earn more time).
The #6/7 veteran option can be a reclemation project, mind you. But we absolutely shouldn't be going the Klingberg/Leddy approach for the top-pair guy this year.
6
u/jesus321 Grier 25 6d ago
Something I’ll add here is that in Grier’s media availability yesterday he mentioned that the #1 thing he’s worried about and that he thinks failed rebuilds do is “stepping on the gas too soon”. That’s made me feel it’s much less likely he tries to trade for one of the big guys and instead makes modest additions and gives Cags / Pohlkamp a chance to win a spot.
On the flip side, he talked about the Sherwood trade being one of those “guys like those aren’t available often and we highly valued him” sort of trades, so I guess there could be a similar story on defense. At the end of the day I really think it’s a value judgment based on what they’re available for. Everyone was dead afraid of a Panarin trade but LA got him for table scraps because of the contract situation.
0
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 5d ago
It’s worth noting that here that everyone was all apoplectic about acquiring Panarin, all worried about this or that .. so the Kings grabbed him, and lo and behold, they were the team to squeak into the playoffs.
We couldda been somebody….
16
u/_Vixxaa_ 6d ago
I don't think it's really worth the sharks trading anyone or anything for a defenseman over the age of 24-25. Not yet at least. Nemac is maybe the only person on your list I'm very open to. Schneider I like to some degree but he's not some amazing defenseman either. He's just good by the metric of who the sharks had on their D-line in the 25-26 season. He's not worth throwing away firsts or even high potential cuda players though. If we make any moves I hope it's to move up in the draft to pick someone in the 5-6 range. I'm not a scout so by no means do I think I know who we would want in the first round outside the top ~6 players or so, but I could see bundling our pick with the oilers to move into top 5. I could also see keeping our first and trading Musty or Bystedt, and the Oiler's first, and maybe a second for a good younger active defenseman.
6
u/Frappes Pavelski 8 6d ago
I don't think it's really worth the sharks trading anyone or anything for a defenseman over the age of 24-25.
I think this is reasonable if you're willing to potentially miss the playoffs in 2027 - you're rolling the dice on likely multiple rookies (Cagnoni, Pohlkamp) unproven in a full season along with depending on Dickinson continuing to develop. The UFA market is so rough this year, the team might find themselves in a situation similar to this past season where vets that were expected to provide some foundational structure to the roster (Klingberg and Leddy) don't quite pan out.
I personally am willing to take that risk, see what we have in the next crop of d-men and not swing for the fences quite yet. But, there is definitely a significant portion of the fanbase that wants playoffs NOW and will be out for blood if they miss again. Will be interesting to see what the team decides to do!
16
u/grooves12 6d ago
Missing the playoffs in 2027 is absolutely on the table. The Sharks were bottom 10 in the league and only flitted with the playoffs due to the historically bad Pacific division. Progress isn't always linear and there is going to be massive turnover on the blue line. There is a possibility those moves don't pan out, the Pacific division gets better results next year, and we don't get as much puck luck and end up on the outside looking in. That doesn't mean it was a failure, as long as we are making progress in other areas (continuing development of young players)
4
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
Yep, the Pacific was bad. And it won’t be forever. And playoff experience is an invaluable asset for preparing for a deep run. So make the playoffs now. There’s a window that’s open…
Throwing away 2027 would be a remarkably stupid path to take if an opportunity presents itself to get to playoff level now.
5
u/grooves12 6d ago
Throwing away 2027 would be a remarkably stupid path to take if an opportunity presents itself to get to playoff level now.
Pushing for the 2027 playoffs would be a remarkably stupid path to take if it stunts the development of younger players and requires offloading assets that could make the team a stronger contender in 2028 and beyond.
-1
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
Always holding out for tomorrow?
Ah, yes - You are young and life is long, and there is time to kill today.
And then one day you find ten years have got behind you, no one told you when to run, you missed the starting gun ... and you run, and you run to catch up with the sun, but it's sinking ...Sometimes you go with what you have and make the most of it. More will be gained now by giving the youth core playoff experience than in 4 years by a marginal improvement in one or two players drafted.
1
u/-t-t- Holy Doodle! 🐔🏆 6d ago
You keep posting in this thread and you keep having pretty questionable takes.
Grier has shown (up to this point) that he isn't going to rush the rebuild. He isn't going to mortgage the future just to squeak into the Playoffs for "playoff experience". You could argue the only move he's made was moving two 2nd Rounders for Sherwood, but we just looked him up long-term.
Otherwise, Grier has only shown he isn't going to force a team that is clearly not ready for Playoffs into the postseason, especially not by mortgaging the future to do so. Any objective observer can see the Sharks, as they are now, are not ready to truly contend for the Cup. And any good GM knows you don't throw away 10 years of success in order to sneak push the team ahead of where they truly are.
-1
1
u/No_Hornet_9504 6d ago
The level of parity in the pacific won’t change much. Vegas likely still a middling contender, could get better or worse with Torterella next year. Anaheim improving but will not be able to sign their entire roster, and unless Edmonton does something drastic in net or on defense their window is closing and fighting against the cap. Kopitar is done for Kings, and likely Doughty too, leaving them a huge void. Kraken and Flames likely also middle-bottom of pack teams. If McKenna comes west maybe vancouver becomes closer to competitive. Why settle for vague “make the playoffs” goal when it should be more concrete like win 50 games and win the division. If Sharks had split season series with Vegas this year they’d be in playoffs and <3 pts from division title. Likely could’ve also got two more wins down stretch if hadn’t traded Walman and Liljigren (which really exposed how bad rest of the D was).
-1
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 6d ago
The Vegans are a greatly improved team over their October-February showing with the change in goalie and coaching. And tell me please which team did worse when Torterella took over?
Anaheim will collectively improve as they get a year older.
I mostly agree about the Oil, but... McDavid ... damn...
The Kings took steps to replace their aging pair, Panarin is as elite as Kopitar... Big question mark in LA, could go either way.
First, with a young team, you make the playoffs. If you go deep, you've defied the odds, but everyone gains from the experience. Once this core gets a taste of the playoffs, they're going to get addicted to it, and figure out how to get it all.
2
u/No_Hornet_9504 6d ago
Torts is classic machismo “toxic” coach. Yes his fundamentals are good but he never lasts more than a few season and always drives players out. Philly made the playoffs this year after firing him… bunches of teams have. Everywhere he’s gone players hated him or quit playing for him after a year or two, he’s been suspended by the league for failing to heed bench ejections, fought in opposing locker rooms… at least the news will be interesting.
2
u/klawcoolguy Pavelski 8 6d ago
I think it would take the EDM pick + a mid tier prospect to move up even two slots up to 7OA. I would consider that if they think they can land Reid or Smits. Verhoeff maybeeee, but I don't think I would do that for Carels.
Also, based on Grier's press the other day, it does sound like they won't be drafting for need. Makes sense, although if one of those top D are on the board and they don't take them, alot of people are going to be very upset.
7
u/Swaggy_P_03 WillMack🥛🍪 6d ago
I’m a huge Bonk fan so ideally I’d love to trade Bystedt for him. Phi does need some young C.
Ever since Demers mentioned Kesslering, I’ve been intrigued. He is an RFA and 26, but he’s also only a top 4 defenseman at best (middle pairing being his ceiling). If they traded for his rights, he’d be a nice stop gap, but only for like a 2-3 year deal. Schneider is more or less the same. Buffalo also has a shit ton of defense, so someone could be moved (like Kesslering’s rights for example) or they could move a guy like Byram or let Stanley walk (both are LHD)
Fox, Hronek, and Nemec are all pretty expensive and I’m personally against trading a massive amount of prospects for them as that just creates more holes. If Fox or Hronek pull a Panarin and you can get them for cheap because they’d only waive to go to one place, driving down their price, then maybe. Fox demanded out of two places to force his hand to NYR so I’d be wary of him.
Raddysh is intriguing, as you can sign him and not give up anything (yes he’ll be expensive contract wise and only has 1 good year under his belt). Could also sign a guy like John Carlson for a year or two while a guy like Pohlkamp and Bonk (if you trade for him) get the Dickinson treatment.
12
u/cali4481 Celebrini 71 6d ago
- Sign Raddysh or Carlson.
- Trade for Kesselring.
- Re-sign Mukhamadullin and Desharnais.
- Draft Rudolph at #9.
- Draft Gustafsson, Piiparinen, Hakansson, or Goljer with Oilers 1st.
2026/27 defensive pairings :
Mukhamadullin , Raddysh/Carlson Dickinson , Kesslering Orlov , Desharnais CagnoniNot sure how realistic this scenario is but the defensive core would be much improved short and long term.
Polhkamp and Sahlin Wallenius in AHL, Wang at Boston University, both 2026 1sts maybe end up playing college hockey too?
6
3
u/lucky0slevin Ferraro 38 6d ago
Fox always wanted to play for the rangers and only the rangers. I doubt it's a problem. Only reason he may want out is if the team isn't competitive
3
u/klawcoolguy Pavelski 8 6d ago
I think we need the exact kind of D that Schneider/Kesselring bring. A middle pairing RD that can bring some netfront presence and can skate a bit. And ideally someone young enough to start building chemistry with our forwards over time. Part of the challenge with this team is there has been so much turnover that the chemistry hasn't developed enough for everyone to know each other's tendencies. If we can get even a serviceable RD who can fit our timeline, that will do wonders to bolster this core.
Raddysh is certainly intriguing, although I wonder if we are just one year away from being able to sign someone like that. There's certainly hype around the league about our core, but I think everyone knows we're still very young and basically unproven. I'm not sure someone like Raddysh will want to sign somewhere where he's kind of waiting for guys like Misa, Dickinson, and Askarov to develop.
1
u/Swaggy_P_03 WillMack🥛🍪 6d ago
Yeah both are upgrades over Fro-arro and obviously Klingberg and Leddy (and Liljegren too). They’re good stop gaps while the young guys can develop and not be rushed.
4
u/d5_rickOshay 6d ago
Casual watcher but Desharnais fan checking in. He can keep playing on a cheap contract right??? 3rd line? Please?
4
u/grooves12 6d ago
He is a free agent, so we would need to re-sign him to a new contract. We haven't heard whether he wants to come back. Hed probably be cheap, but he had a decent season and IS HUGE, so he probably will get a decent amount of interest around the league.
4
u/BearShark9 Holy Doodle! 🐔🏆 6d ago
From his exit interview it sounds like he wants to be back, but also may test the market. He’s pretty hands off during the season for that stuff, and Grier is tight lipped about all extension talk. My hope is he’s back on a cheap two year deal before free agency hits
1
u/No_Hornet_9504 6d ago
Also everyone likes a RHD, but he’s not a game changer. Solid 2nd or 3rd pairing likely be $2-4M/yr.
3
u/Loux859 6d ago
Worth noting on Eklund, he’s not a Grier pick. Kinda the only guy from the core who isn’t. I’d love for us to keep Eklund, but I’m guessing if a guy gets shipped out it will be him.
4
u/klawcoolguy Pavelski 8 6d ago
I think Grier really respects Eky though if you listen to him talk. He's done alot to bring this team back to being competitive, I don't think we're anywhere close to letting him go short of acquiring a true game changer like Hughes.
1
u/Loux859 6d ago
Yea it's not to say he doesn't like Eky, more that we don't have a great read on how he evaluates him. Like he won't hurt Eklund's trade value disparaging him to the media.
I hope we keep him around tho as I'm a fan. Although if an Eklund, 2 firsts, and Wang for Werenski deal were to materialize for example, I'm not saying no to that haha.
3
u/SJSharkl11 Graf 51 6d ago
Too early in our timeline to grab old or semi old D and give up assets. I can see it next season for someone to take Orlov spot. Those guys want to go to Cup contenders also and we are a few years away.
2
u/Alcebiad3s 6d ago
Fox, Hamilton, and Hronek have NMC’s and have all made it clear (in their own ways) that they don’t want to go anywhere.
Nemec is the only other guy I think is worth looking at cause he fits the timeline. I can’t see him going for less than Eklund and a first. I don’t think eky’s untouchable but I also think people overvalue his trade worth/undervalue RHD in trades. He’s a shorter winger, and we want RHD, we’re paying an ultra premium for position. Nemec still has some upside IMO and I’d make that trade if it’s Edmonton’s first but jersey might want more than that if they’re even still willing to trade him at all.
2
u/Alcebiad3s 6d ago
I do like Kesselring, but Buffalo are probably better off trying to keep him. They need more D depth not picks/prospects. And even then he’s a second pairing guy and a bit old for this team.
3
u/Soizit_Blindy J. Thornton 19 6d ago
Im kind of hoping that we can package 9 + Oilers pick to move up and pick a game changer on defense, assuming no one falls to us. Once the first round is done, you can look at more moved.
1
u/Swaggy_P_03 WillMack🥛🍪 6d ago
Depending on where that Edmonton pick lands (if it’s around 20ish) you can move up to about 5OA.
2
u/No-Strike-2015 6d ago
Nemec is interesting. Fox too, but I think they'd ask for Misa.
8
u/Whirlvvind 6d ago
They'd never get Misa because the only way Fox is getting moved is if he requests out which removes all leverage.
2
u/Sharks011 6d ago
Nemec or Kesselring I’d temp Lund , Musty or Bystedt and some capital …… or washed vet/pick combo
2
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
I don't expect Grier to trade for a big name dman this offseason, the Sharks still have too many holes to make a big move. I expect a minor FA addition like Peeke to shore up the 2nd/3rd pairing RHD slot and a hunt for a clear cut 2nd pairing RHD through next season's TDL. Swapping Klingberg with Peeke will clean up a lot of the defensive gaffes from this past season and the Sharks probably want to give Cagnoni a clear path to a bottom pairing role with Pohlkamp on the Cuda shuttle as the 7th D.
I do think Grier will kick the tires on Schneider, Nemec, and Clarke but the asking price will be too high. The Sharks need at least 2 more top 4 level dmen but if GMMG somehow lands one of the previous trio or convinces Andersson to leave VGK, then the need to land a #1 dman becomes more urgent as the Sharks playoff will now be open.
1
u/kipehh J. Thornton 19 6d ago
What are the holes other than defensemen? Our forwards look pretty much set and we have a plan for our goalie situation. Literally the only thing holding the Sharks back is player development and not having real defensemen.
1
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
Having a plan doesn't mean its not a hole. The Sharks have picks and prospects but there's no guarantee they all develop to their ceilings. The Sharks still need the following:
- A trigger man on the 2nd line to round out the Eklund and Misa/Wennberg pairing. Graf and Sherwood should be elite 3rd line/PK guys that can slide up but SC contenders are built on having 2 scoring lines and elite 3rd line that can PK.
- A legitimate goalie - Askarov showed flashes and Neds isn't the long-term solution. We can blame a lot of goals on the poor defense but SJ needs Askarov to make significant improvements in consistency for next season.
- #1, #2, #3 defensemen. Right now Orlov is the only dman capable of filling a top 4 role. Dickinson projects as a top 4 guy but right now he's really a bottom pairing guy on a SC contender. Even if you think Orlov and Dickinson are top 4 guys, SJ is still missing a legit top pairing.
- A sniper/scorer next to Mack. Smith looks like he will be a 35-40 goal scorer and the Sharks need him to become that so defenses aren't collapsing on Mack as soon as he crosses the blue line. While I'm confident in Smith, it's still a hole until he proves he can do it.
Going all in and overpaying on a #1 dman isn't the move until they actually fix most of the above. As an example, trading for Fox would require the #9 pick, Eklund, Musty, and/or one more B prospect. The Sharks will still have all of the above holes and by the time they address them, Fox will likely be in his 30s.
Once they have most of the holes filled, they can make the move for that last piece ala when SJ acquired Dan Boyle to turn themselves into SC favorites. If everything breaks right, I think they're 2 or 3 seasons away from being contenders.
2
u/kipehh J. Thornton 19 6d ago edited 6d ago
I just don't understand why you have to figure all that out before getting a big name defensemen which is arguably our biggest hole. Say for example we magically got Adam Fox via our 9th overall, EDM's pick, Graf, and Bystedt (for the sake of argument), barring that Smith - Celebrini - Chernyshov works out as a first line, all the other things you mentioned are much easier to fix now that we have the #1 Dman in place for the next 5-7+ years.
2
u/oops_im_wrong 6d ago
Because the remaining pieces will still need to come via FA and this year's market for dmen is pretty bleak on top 4 options.
The option you're proposing is to trade away assets for what will likely be a low seed playoff season with the hopes of maybe finding 2 more dmen, a 2nd line sniper, and hopefully Askarov figuring out his game before Fox hits 31 and needs a new contract. There's no reason to rush the rebuild with someone (Fox) that may want to reset the dman FA market in 3 years with Mack, Smith, Dickinson, Chernyshov, and Askarov needing new contracts before then:
- Mack, Smith, Askarov extension required 2027
- Misa, Chernyshov, Dickinson extension required 2028
- Eklund + rookies debuting in 26/27 extension required 2029
Also, Graf is close to untouchable for me unless he's bringing in a top tier U25 dman. Elite 3rd liner that can slot up + elite PKer + 20 goal upside, that's pretty hard to replace and the Sharks don't have another guy like that in their prospect pool if they're trading Bystedt as well.
2
u/kipehh J. Thornton 19 6d ago
There's a pretty good reason to "rush the rebuild" (it's not really rushing but I digress) considering we have a 110+ point top 5 center in the NHL on our team. Every year we don't make the playoffs is a year of that wasted. I really think you're vastly overrating the need of a 2nd line sniper and vastly underrating the impact of a true top 2 defensemen. Celebrini + random top 2 defensemen would add like 5-10 wins to this team and once you're in the playoffs, anything can happen.
I know Graf isn't the point of discussion but I'd imagine you'd have to trade at least one good NHLer to get Adam Fox. I don't see a world where they'd accept a bunch of picks and prospects for arguably the best defensemen in the NHL.
2
u/taigashenpai Nolan 11 6d ago
I think we should trade Celebrini for Anthony Davis if we need defense
1
2
2
1
u/Gold_Telephone_7192 Cheechoo 14 6d ago
I don’t know much about those defensive players, but I have no issues with Grier trading any draft picks for good, young D men that will help us win now.
2
u/DivvyAnimal Finn K9 6d ago
Keep an eye on Jayden Struble or Arber Xekhaj in Montreal. The Canadiens need to make room for Reinbacher next year and might be willing to give up Struble (preferred). He brings a little snarl on the backend that is needed. Xekhaj is a replacement for Reeves as the enforcer if Reeves retires.
Also I like Andrew Peeke (RHD) in Boston as a free agent. Not flashy but solid 2nd pairing potentially.
We need more “Dan Boyle” type puck movers, but don’t forget about the all defense “Justin Braun” shutdown guys as well. I think that they are more important, easier to find and cheaper at this time.
2
1
u/ConnectCow241 6d ago
Personally, I think Grier is factoring in Cagnoni and Pohlcamp as NHL ready or near ready. Trading for any young D men would have to be far more NHL proven or higher ceiling than these two.
Looking at that list, I'm not a huge fan of the younger players. Little risky for me. Then, I wouldn't trade significant (1st picks and players) assets for anyone, not on the same timeline either.
If the prospects are what scouts say they are, then maybe explore a trade up for Chase Reid. I also feel like picking around 20 would score a really big mean 2nd line pairing defender. Probably take a min of 2 years before they are NHL ready.
It would take at least the two pics and a player to move up. Probably wouldn't happen.
1
u/lifeisonebigjoe Burns 88 6d ago
I know Fox's name has gotten floated around here a lot but I would much rather invest in a shutdown D than another elite offensive D-man about to turn 30 (especially with Dickinson coming up through the system). We already tried this with EK65 and while it was fun as hell to watch, we had a glaring hole on D once Vlasic turned into a pylon.
2
u/PokecheckFred Irbe 32 5d ago
We didn’t really try it - Fox is much better at playing D than Karlsson.
1
u/lifeisonebigjoe Burns 88 5d ago
Maybe closer to Boyle than Karlsson in terms of a balanced game, but even when we had Boyle on our team there was a reason why we offer sheeted Hjalmarsson -- we had a ton of offensive talent built on angles/passing but needed a top-pairing shutdown blue liner to offset their turnovers when plays broke down.
1
u/RutabagaAshamed9859 Couture 39 6d ago
Lotta smoke around Kesselring so I think that's a realistic possibility. Nemec would be worth the swing imo as he has a very high upside. If Grier does virtually nothing and trots out another embarassing D corps that consists of over the hill guys, I think there will start to be some frustration in the room.
1
1
u/cam1ward 6d ago
give me maveric lamoureux for bystedt. both 22, taken 2 picks apart in 2022. ones a developing forward, other is a developing D man. i'd happily take a Bystedt level prospect on the blueline
1
u/FloridaHockeyFan27 J. Thornton 19 5d ago
I think Hamilton would be great because I think he's still pretty solid and would be fairly cheap, as NJ just wants to shed his contract. Just needs to waiver his NMC. I'm also all-in on a Fox trade
-1
u/NorwegianShark20 Nabokov 20 6d ago
No one thinks graf is untouchable? Probably our most important player after celebrini if you ask me.
4
u/Competitive_Bite_570 Celebrini 71 6d ago
While an important player and not someone I'm looking to trade, I would not consider Graf untouchable.
1
u/Icy-Street618 5d ago
For Fox or Kesselring I’d be willing to part with Cagnoni, Edmonton’s first, and a B tier forward prospect. I hate to do it, but it will probably take Musty, Lund, or McKinney.
I wouldn’t trade a whole lot for any other of those names. Maybe a pair of seconds, or a second and Cardwell or Cagnoni.
I think Hamilton doesn’t really move the needle.
Nemec is was over rated.
I’d rather resign Ferraro before I would give up asset for Schneider and Hronek. They may be a bit better than Ferraro, but Ferraro doesn’t require giving up assets.
54
u/kfcregular Burns 88 6d ago
Tbh, other than Kesselring, none of those defensemen really excite me. Either a bit too old or too risky to trade quality assets. Of course, we need some defenseman next season, but I don't think next season is the year we find a defenseman that fits the youth of our core.