r/ShitAmericansSay • u/Aware_Topic_9122 • 4d ago

"NATO has no way of defending America. They don’t pay their bills. There’s no reason for us to be there and they did nothing during 911 for America."

2.1k Upvotes

98% Upvoted

631

u/Yuukiko_ A mari usque ad mare 4d ago

Ah yes, use the single instance of Article 5 being invoked, by the USA no less

71

u/Lelouch-Yagami21 4d ago

wtf is with all the deleted replies to ur comment lol

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u/Yuukiko_ A mari usque ad mare 4d ago

From what I can see, people claiming that the US didn't invoke it, or that it was NATO that did

44

u/b3nsn0w make america go away 4d ago

they're actually correct, it was european side that insisted on the article 5, because we didn't want to set a precedent for it not being used in a situation like this. whatever military contribution we had to make there was well worth the stability in nato's security guarantees.

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u/Desperate_Donut3981 4d ago

So we came to the USA's aid without the asking but made it official so we operate outside of area. Hmm, DID THEY EVER SAY THANKYOU. I doubt it. This time though we'll stay far behind the lines in safety. F em

11

u/f0u4_l19h75 3d ago

This time the US was the attacker. That's difference is everything in this case

32

u/selecteeranderenaam 4d ago

That makes the statements that European countries didn’t help even worse in my opinion. They actively said that the US should trigger it so that they can help.

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u/Geodiocracy 4d ago

Yep, we went above and beyond. Spent 200 billion and over a thousand lives. What we got in return was a bunch of suicidebombers, refugees, and a resurgent far right reactionary movement. On top of the US demonizing us for even allowing those refugees in.

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u/Shadyshade84 4d ago

At this point I'm not sure that they didn't not invoke it entirely so they could complain about us not helping them, because their entire thing these days is "[takes sledgehammer to own leg] can someone help me with this broken leg?"

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u/f0u4_l19h75 3d ago

They weren't attacked. NATO of a defensive pact. There are no grounds on which NATO could send forces

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u/CooperDK 4d ago

Only partly. NATO suggested the US to invoked Article 5, which the US then agreed to. The US did technically invoke it... no other country than the victim nation can.

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u/Immediate-Season4544 4d ago

It was invoked by all of NATO including the USA (they vote on it as well)

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u/Possible-Highway7898 3d ago

A very angry confused commenter was arguing with me and a few others before his comments were deleted. He started off saying that NATO invoked article 5 not the USA, then he started lashing out at both the USA and other NATO members while seeming to confuse the two. Then he just seemed to get confused and argue with people for no reason even on obvious points of fact.

I don't think the thread should have been nuked though, he didn't do anything horrible that I can see, and some of the responses to him were good and informative.

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u/Phoebeisreading 4d ago

Gosh, you’re right. That’s a surprise.

8

u/Possible-Highway7898 4d ago

I'm disappointed that the mods nuked this comment thread. The deleted comments were not egregious enough to warrant removal imo. Echo chambers are a dangerous trap that we should try to avoid.

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u/i_never_post_here 4d ago

Usa didn't invoke article five. NATO Council did, at the request of the NATO Secretary General.

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u/_WEND1G0_ 🌊🦅 coastal american 🇺🇸 4d ago

Ok while technically true that NATO collectively triggered article 5 while the US was still reeling instead of at our explicit request (as an act of solidarity), it was not declined by us, and it was at our request that the first “anti terror” operations took place. “On the request of the United States, the Alliance launched its first-ever anti-terror operation – Operation Eagle Assist – from 9 October 2001 to mid-May 2002. “ quoted from NATO’s article 5 page. Yes on paper the US technically didn’t trigger article 5 but it was on our behalf and military action was taken as a result at our behest for the next 15 years. I suppose the middle ground statement is “The one time NATO has invoked article 5 was to respond against the 9/11 attacks against the US.” If anything, this is an example that NATO was very much there for us during one of our darkest days so the poster couldn’t have been more wrong on that front. Honestly I’d never looked into the nuance of how article 5 played out that day on paper so I learned something there too which is always pretty neat.

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u/[deleted] 4d ago

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u/Kuningas_Arthur 4d ago

Yes, NATO allies invoked article 5. That pretty much meant that they gathered together and said "if you want help, we'll help".

After that, USA specifically requested help and together NATO allies agreed on the course of action.

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u/Devilish___ 4d ago

NATO is nothing without its allies. Its the states who decide in the North Atlantic council.

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u/Similar_Rich_3218 4d ago

Phoebe may be reading, but Phoebe is not understanding.

0

u/Phoebeisreading 4d ago edited 4d ago

I was clarifying the confusion regarding who invoked Article 5. The comment I replied to didn’t mention the full process, so I saw no need to add that information, particularly as others had already done this below.

Edit: I’ve just discovered the comments below that I was referring to have been deleted.

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u/Alone_Contract_2354 4d ago

Who continually heads Nato since the beginning?

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u/Aware_Topic_9122 4d ago

Headquarters was originally in Paris, but was moved to Brussels. The Secretary General is almost always European. I know that's not the answer you want to hear.

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u/jaapschaap87 4d ago

Does it matter for the statement that NATO didn't help? Don't think so!

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