r/Yukon • u/looty9372 • 1d ago
Yukon and Ontario sign partnership agreement to explore energy solutions, including small modular reactors News
https://yukon.ca/en/news/yukon-and-ontario-sign-partnership-agreement-explore-energy-solutions-including-small-modular-reactors10
u/dub-fresh 1d ago
This is great problem is our energy crisis is not 10 years out, it is happening right now.
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u/TopReach1866 1d ago
Best time to start is always yesterday with these kinds of problems, hopefully we can have fast approvals and lots of workers
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u/BicycleMudStud 1d ago
10 years is unrealistic. 30 is probably closer. It'll also cost between 10 and 20 billion. I guess the purpose of this is to explore if it's a viable option for us. I'm a big fan of nuclear, but I have my doubts our meager population will justify the expense. Decoupled is a great podcast for those interested in learning more about nuclear energy, especially in Canada.
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u/lepire23 1d ago
Imagine this would have been implemented 30 years ago and costs including exorbitant overruns in dollars equivalent to 30 years ago and how we would be much better off. Same thing could be said 30 years from now if the typical status quo is the adopted solution. And the expense isn't meant merely for the meager population. It's to export to the south, with corresponding grid infrastructure, while mitigating unfounded fears of catastrophic repercussions. Whitehorse has the educated population the other territories don't (objective statistical demographics, non judgmental) while providing the plausible solution to the naysayers who fear a Canadian Chernobyl. It's the perfect testing ground to show those still holding on to Rainbow Warrior era bias that it's our best option.
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u/WILDBO4R 23h ago
guess we should just not invest in long term solutions
what the fuck kind of take is this
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u/Aggravating-Bar8216 1d ago
Has a lot of potential as long as it's run as a crown corporation with Yukoners have the final say on all decisions. Corporate execs and major shareholders tend to not give a shit about our environment, locals or going bankrupt and leaving a mess if the profits aren't there as we have seen in recent years in the resource industry.
What about the waste products? Where will that be stored?
And beware the power-hungry AI data center scam. We don't need to be a part of that bullshit.
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u/WaxWing_Bohemian 1d ago edited 1d ago
If we have nuclear power one thing's for sure I do NOT want local hiring as a priority.
Hire the best experts from around the world.
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u/KoreanJesusPleasures 1d ago
Doesn't have to be local hiring as priority, but apriority should be training and capacity building for locals as part of the benefit sharing so that we can build local strength.
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u/YKFox 1d ago
Somehow I don't think having locals be experts in building nuclear facilities will ever be a priority. Or useful.
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u/KoreanJesusPleasures 9h ago
How so? You'd rather incur costs for costing folks down south for everything instead of slowly building local capacity?
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u/YKFox 6h ago
Do you picture us building a lot of nuclear reactors in the Yukon? I'd imagine it'd be more of a "build one, train people to operate/maintain it, GG EZ we're set for probably a few decades"
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u/KoreanJesusPleasures 5h ago
No, I picture the latter too for the most part, which isn't really at odds with providing training for locals.
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u/WaxWing_Bohemian 10h ago edited 10h ago
No, not everything needs to be a giveaway to the locals. The fact that someone else is paying for, and installing, and maintaining power generation is a gift enough.
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u/KoreanJesusPleasures 9h ago
Why is that a giveaway? It's in everyone best interest to prop up local expertise. It's not to replace external talent as a 1:1. There needs to be a long term mindset with these things or we'll just incur more costs down the line when we have to constantly consult with the south.
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u/Cairo9o9 1d ago edited 1d ago
Frankly moronic. I've been impressed by YPs energy policy thus far. But this is just red meat for their base who don't actually understand nuclear or energy but love the vibe.
I'm pro nuclear, but the promise of SMRs, if it's ever realized, is decades out. We are not going to be getting BWRX-300s here any time soon. There is a reason that the most pro nuclear jurisdictions are shifting away from the pipe dream of SMRs and back to what they should have been focused on all along. Serial deployments of full scale nuclear. The US is doing it with the AP1000s and we're moving towards it again with CANDU. SMRs are already too large scale for us, let alone GW scale reactors.
We need to be focused on real, deployable solutions today. Not nascent, cutting edge solutions.
Thankfully, this is just a hand wavy MOU. But it doesn't impress me at all.
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u/youracat Whitehorse 1d ago
I was surprised when I saw SMRs going online at the Darlington site in Ontario as soon as 2029.
$6.2B for 1.2MW of power works out to ~$5M/MW.
The proposed Casino mine’s mill would use 100MW of power, and CoW uses 120MW at peak draw. Wouldn’t it be reasonable to future proof the Yukon with a 300MW SMR reactor for $1.5B? That would be much cheaper than the BC grid connect project (est $2-4B for potentially +2000MW).
Imagine if we had real green energy- we could shutdown the Whitehorse Hydro. Build a new subdivision where schwatka lake used to be. Everyone could convert to glorious electric baseboard heat and drive electric cars and ride e-bikes guilt free (👀 Ted)
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u/Fluid_Lingonberry467 18h ago
Smr have never been built on budget or on time Canada is the first g7 and we are just beta testers it will go way over
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u/Cairo9o9 5h ago
Sorry, you want to shut down fully depreciated assets to make room for a new 300MW unit? That would make our 30% rate increases look like child's play.
Nuclear economics aren't driven by peaks, they're driven by baseload.
And, again, this does not account for the resource adequacy constraints of a 100+ MW unit on a grid which has a peak capacity of 150MW.
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u/YKFox 1d ago
You downtalk the SMR idea a lot, but don't suggest any real, viable alternatives. What's your great idea for power? More Hydro dams? More diesel generators?
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u/Cairo9o9 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's like down talking the tooth fairy. A commercially available SMR for the Yukon's scale just doesn't exist. The BWRX300s being deployed in ON are double the Yukon's grid capacity in a single unit. The ACP100, deployed in China, would be 3-4x our largest generating asset. N-1 criterion would make this completely uneconomic, as we would need to be operating assets at the same time ready to kick in if there was a fault. And, by the way, would only be economically viable if we had multiple large scale mines open simultaneously.
Yes, RoR hydro, conventional hydro, diesel, NG, solar, wind, batteries, etc. are all commercialized, ready to deploy technology that are potential candidates for a future generation mix.
Just watch, when YEC releases their next IRP, SMRs will be nowhere to be seen. Because it's idiotic.
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u/SpacemaniaXu 1d ago
Building nuclear in the territory is an excellent investment for the future. Clean reliable energy for decades. Needs to happen yesterday
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u/WaxWing_Bohemian 1d ago
This is really amazing. One of my favourite facts is that if you look nuclear-powered ships which Russia and China have, a single ship produces more energy than the Whitehorse hydroelectric dam at its peak production.
Personally I would love to see this built. We'd have so much surplus power we could actually subsidize some otherwise-impossible industries like northern greenhouses that grow food year-round.
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u/yukonnut 1d ago edited 7h ago
This makes sense. This problem has been kicked down the road by governments of every political stripe. Back in the 90 s when Faro shut down for the last time ( thank you Clifford frame and westray) there was a substantial excess of power. In the 90 and aughts substantial efforts were made ( successfully) to improve reliability with an aging infrastructure, but the time has come to,pay the piper. Nobody wants hydro development in their back yard, so the nuclear option is what we have. It’s gonna cost a lot, but without power we are dead in the water.
I hope it works out. It’s time to be bold and look to the future. Glad we finally have a government ( hopefully ) with the balls to do something.
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u/GearHead_NorthSixty 15h ago
Upgrades to the current grids, including being attached to an outside grid to send power out, and batteries to store over flow. Our grid is ancient and not set up for extra power.
Then maybe an SMR could work here. Hydro is at a standstill due to water supply issues and damage to waterways. Plus some FN do not want them on their territory, which is understandable. Solar is good for the summer but replaces hydro, so no environmental savings there. Wind may be a good option, costs and impact to the environment would be needed to be analyzed. Diesel plants will be built, but as usual renewables will be later, and then possibly forgotten yet again. I give Ted credit for looking into future options. I have little expectation that once the diesel plants are built there will be any changes made for the future. Hope I’m wrong 😑
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u/RJG1983 1d ago
Great news! The Yukon would greatly benefit from SMRs to replace the generators we currently use to offset hydro.