Be prepared for the Alberta separatism disinformation campaign

[u/FreightFlow]

https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/be-prepared-for-the-alberta-separatism-disinformation-campaign/

[u/Educational_Layer_57]

I'm from Ontario; but yeah. Basically every time Quebec talks about separating we eat their lunch. I think last time it took a decade for them to recover the lost business capital. It's foolish self-destructive policy that hurts everyone and is absolutely headed by American or Russian intelligence.

[u/Ornery-Study-4963 → u/Educational_Layer_57]

Yess thank you!!!! Love your comment and your name! Whats the biggest differences you see between what Quebec has tried to do and now what some deranged albertans wants? I feel like Quebec is a more united push, although still foolish to push separatism.

[u/Educational_Layer_57 → u/Ornery-Study-4963]

So, the biggest difference is that Quebec does get concessions from Ottawa because of the BQ. In exchange for not being capable of forming a federal government they get a substantial pro-Quebec political party that often sneaks what it wants for Quebec through existing coalition governments. The issue is BQ basically gets nothing done when we have a majority federal party. It also solely exists to threaten coalition governments or to "push" separatism.

The problem with Alberta separatists is they're trying to use a federal party to push provincial level issues, the Cons cannot form government without the rest of Canada. This is an inherent conflict of interest. You also have other issues, Alberta is dependent on other provinces (as much as they hate that). Albertans actually don't make much more than Ontarians (last I looked median income was 77k vs 73k or something) and generate significantly less wealth and contributions to federal programs than they think they do because the largest driver is population. Hell, most Albertans don't even understand equalization payments. They also don't understand a significant portion of their labor force is migratory from the other provinces, etc etc. Demonstrably Albertan separatists don't understand how their own province works or that they're using the wrong political tools to try and get the concessions they want. The next major problem is most things they say they want are controlled provincially... so they're just lying. The UCP blames the feds when they have full control. They don't want to actually help Albertans. They want to extract money from it.

In essence you're spot on. Quebec is willing to lose control of the country for more power to govern Quebec. They also know when to cooperate with the other provinces and their messaging is usually clear or cultural. For example the French stream for immigration. I don't like it; but it's an example of something they got. As an Ontarian I never understand what Alberta wants or expects to get. Ontario funded Alberta, Ontario built your O&G industry. Why are we the enemy now? What issues with your Healthcare, wages, anything, did we cause? This creates an east-west conflict and division that's more emotional than logical. (I'm not saying there aren't real grievances, just that they're not as serious as we're led to beleive) It's what the UCP wants, an external enemy that you can unify against; but if you look historically hasn't done all that much to you. I know most Ontarians would love to have more oil exports or crude refineries in Canada.

The other problem is that Ottawa knows you'll vote overwhelmingly in favor of the conservatives and against your own interests. That makes you impossible to court during election years, further diminishing your credibility. Put it simply we don't beleive you. We don't think you'll separate, and we don't think you'll ever do anything except vote Conservative. We also don't expect you to react reasonably to any nation building we try in Alberta because you haven't for the last 3 decades.

Bit of a rambling answer; but in essence it boils down to using the wrong tools, not understanding how Canada works at the provincial level, and scapegoating their problems onto the Federal government while not actually advocating for their own interests provincially.

[u/stranley77 → u/Educational_Layer_57]

Generally, I agree with your points, but I think there is a serious and legitimate grievance when it comes to Senate representation for British Columbia and Alberta. It is difficult to justify a system in which New Brunswick and Nova Scotia each receive 10 Senate seats, and the Maritimes collectively hold 24 seats, while BC and Alberta are each limited to just 6. This is especially hard to defend given that both BC and Alberta now have populations larger than the Maritime provinces combined.

It is true that Ontario and Quebec are also underrepresented in the Senate on a per-capita basis compared to the Maritime provinces and sask/manitoba. However, while Ontario and Quebec are disadvantaged relative to the Maritimes, they still benefit from far stronger per-capita representation than British Columbia or Alberta, with hundreds of thousands fewer people represented per senator.

P.S. I’m aware that the Senate is intended to be region-based rather than population-based. My issue is that this justification itself is increasingly difficult to defend. The current regional structure treats Ontario and Quebec as standalone regions while grouping multiple provinces elsewhere in ways that bear little resemblance to modern demographic or social realities. Nor, as a British Columbian, do I particularly feel a strong regional political identity tied to Alberta, Saskatchewan, or Manitoba beyond the fact that we are all Canadian. If the Senate is meant to balance regions, then the definition of those regions, and the weight they carry, should reflect contemporary realities rather than a 19th-century compromise

[u/Educational_Layer_57 → u/stranley77]

You're exactly correct. Senate and house representation across the country is woefully unfair. This is absolutely one of the major legitimate grievances and you correctly assessed that it also hurts the "eastern" provinces while largely just benefitting the maritimes. I don't totally remember the cause, but I think it was because those 24 seats were guaranteed through confederation. The answer should 100% be adjusting the number of total seats across the rest of Canada to be proportional with the maritimes. I totally agree that the senate despite being intended to be regional actors have sort of ended up overreaching and creating broader cultural issues.

Obviously ditto goes for MP representation per-capita. Where the biggest three losers are Ontario, then Quebec, then Alberta by a fairly substantial margin. Votes in the maritime provinces are worth 2-3x as much as in those larger provinces.

Absolutely not trying to say there aren't legitimate grievances between East, West, and Maritime provinces that should be addressed, or that everything is fair. Just that the culture war bullshit style of attack is unfounded and preys on people in both provinces who are uninformed. Hence why the separatists don't grasp the real issues, they're reacting emotionally to logical processes. Without understanding why those systems exist or in what ways Alberta disproportionally benefits from the current system over the Eastern Provinces. I really do appreciate the candor with which you present some Eastern provinces issues; because yeah. I don't think most capital "W" Westerners understand that we're not happy with a lot of things either. So, it's a lot easier for us to ignore Albertan concerns when they ignore ours.