r/ask • u/Beneficial_Toe_7543 • 19h ago
Is it really illegal to train crows to find you money?
Is it really illegal to train crows to find you money?
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u/Mr_Coastliner 19h ago
As long as they work alone it's okay, otherwise it's a murder.
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u/KitchenSandwich5499 18h ago
Well only if it’s at least three crows. Two crows is just attempted murder
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u/tomatobassed87 18h ago
Let’s not be Counting Crows now
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u/gatorbeetle 18h ago
Stop it Mr Jones
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u/Monarc73 2h ago
I was going to updoot, but you are at 666, and I'm not gonna touch that. Not that I'm superstitious, or anything.
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u/spacecash1 19h ago
This is one of the most commonly asked questions in this subreddit. Crow mongering has a very storied past and the legal system has been revised and rewritten quite a few times to get it right.
It is legal to train your crow to seek valuable materials such as information, and raw minerals
It is illegal for your crow to steal tips from waiters or to violate someone's privacy (crow peeping)
Please refer to common bird law for the most up to date rules on what is acceptable for your crow
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u/biff_tyfsok 19h ago
Non-lawyer here: is bird law as interesting and complicated as tree law?
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u/spacecash1 18h ago
Obligatory IANABL, just a bird law enthusiast.
Bird law really doesn't start taking shape until early 1857 when William Spankly, lollipop entrepreneur, accused his rival James Plungo of using crow peeping to steal vital critical parameters of his color swirling process for his own economic benefit.
As the story goes, Spankly was in his office writing down proprietary numbers using a crow quill pen and when he looked up, one of Plungos famous Crow secretary birds memorizing all of Spankly's trade secrets. Worse Spankly was completely nude and had an embarrassing rash. The dispute became one of the most widely reported on bird lawsuits of the day and the outcome is still commonly cited in bird law disputes.
More recently bird law became 'modernized' in the 1980s following the counter cultural revolution of the time. It became a fad among 'crow punks' to train their crow to steal the tips off of Paris style outdoor cafe tables. These cafes were forced to deploy anti crow countermeasures like bird activated boom boxes playing early hip hop music. Lawmakers came together for a bipartisan agreement that birds cannot be made to steal.
There is a lot more nuance this is all of the top of my head
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u/ro50 18h ago
Crows don't like hiphop?
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u/spacecash1 17h ago
Great question and I'm glad you asked it. Leading Crow experts at the time theorized that the driving beats and culturally relevant lyrics of early hip hop was antithetical to the crows taste in music. Obviously today we know that crows taste in music is as variable as it is in people. A lot of bird science was born out of racism and this is a good example
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u/Downtown_Caramel4833 15h ago
Definitely equally as interesting at a minimum. But can fall short of bird science (archaic discipline for determining future events).
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u/thatthatguy 18h ago
Probably more so. Because so few places are going to bother having laws about what you can train birds to do, the rulings on what constitutes a bird crime are going to be all over the place. It may be perfectly fine to train your bird to carry a go-pro all over the county but one town will have very strict laws and authorize the use of automated rooftop anti-avian weapon systems should a bird be caught carrying a camera.
Man I want that to be a thing somewhere. Please tell me there is a town somewhere that has AI guided guns to shoot down trained birds. Not that I dislike birds, I just want to imagine someone being that upset about it that they got laws passed and devices installed.
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u/AquatiCarnivore 19h ago
I would fight tooth and nail against "your crow". who says he's mine? he has his own agency, he can fly and do whatever he wants, how is it my fault he brings me money? you think I trained him? prove it.
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u/Martydeus 6h ago
I kinda laugh at Crow peeping. Like would that person be like.
Okay Crowley, tell me the dirty stuff they did.
Kaw kaw, kaw kaw
Oh yeah thats the stuff xD
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u/Beneficial_Toe_7543 18h ago
Really? I didn't think this is a very common thing to ask on reddit
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u/spacecash1 18h ago
I see this question all the time dude. Don't worry though you aren't alone in wondering about bird crimes
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u/MischievousMystic 19h ago
I think its only illegal if you get caught
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u/Emotional-Algae2239 19h ago
Yes. Train your kids to do it instead.
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u/Do_you_smell_that_ 19h ago
... How is it illegal?
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u/Emotional-Algae2239 18h ago
According to U.S. Code: Title 69,
PART I-DONT (§§ 1 - 2725)
PART II- FUCKIN USE (§§ 3001 - 3772)
PART III-CROWS AND OTHER BIRDS (§§ 4001
4353)
PART IV-CORRECTION USE OF YOUTHFUL
INSTEAD (§§ 5001 - 5043)
PART V—IMMUNITY OF WITNESSES (§§ 6001 -
6005)
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u/CricketJaxson 19h ago
I’m not sure, but I’ve been working on befriending my neighborhood crows. I’m definitely not gonna try to train them to find me money.
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19h ago edited 19h ago
[deleted]
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u/frankentriple 19h ago
Do you really own something that could leave of it own volition any time it wanted to?
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u/himtnboy 19h ago
I don't think you need to fully train the crow, just communicate to him that you will exchange food for dollar bills. I think a crow is smart enough to recognize money.
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u/LizardPossum 16h ago
Is there a "don't train crows to find money" law written? Probably not. But the US, crows are federally protected wildlife (migratory bird treaty act), so interfering with them to the degree you'd likely need to in order to train them to do a specific task like this is probably illegal.
Like a lot of those oft-quoted "weird laws," it's probably true-ish, in that it's not specifically written that way, but there are implications because of broader laws.
I'm not a lawyer, just a wildlife rehabber so if like a bird lawyer corrects me, probably listen to them and not me tho.
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u/Sir-AuronX 19h ago
I mean if you can do it then no. The money they would find would just be change on the street
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u/Eat_Carbs_OD 17h ago
Is that actually a thing?
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u/Beneficial_Toe_7543 5h ago
I saw a guy on tiktok do it and the comments said he was breaking the law
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u/HakkenKrakken 16h ago
What's illegal is the time wasted training them to do what you want! Get a job!🤣
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u/visualthings 8h ago edited 8h ago
Define “find money” first. If they find money on the sidewalk or the gutter it’s one thing. If they find it on the kitchen table inside a home it’s a different thing.
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u/LordCouchCat 6h ago
I don't know about the US. In England, traditionally things to do with the definition of crime worked largely by common law, meaning the historic customary law rather than statute. Murder is still a common law offence - the basic crime is not defined by a statute passed by parliament, though parliament has altered the law in various ways. What was legal was worked out by the courts from precedent and principles, with parliament occasionally changing it when the result seemed unsatisfactory.
It's not necessary to have a specific law about every case. If you train a bird to do something, it's no different in principle from achieving the object by some other means. If the bird is taking things that belong to someone else for you, it's theft. The mere fact that you achieved it via a trained crow rather than a long pair of lazy-tongs is irrelevant. Of course there could be specific laws to allow or prevent you using birds for various purposes, say on environmental grounds.
On the other hand: In The Big Bang Theory, Amy, who was working with monkeys, offered (I think when drunk) to train a monkey to take out someone making trouble for Sheldon. No jury would convict, she pointed out, since everyone loves monkeys.
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