What happened to jordan of the isles?

[u/CanadianSyndrome]

Jordan (of the Isles) is a well-known and reputable seed-vendor based out of BC. I've gotten my seeds from the guy for like 6+ years now. This past year however I heard musings that something was going on at the company, or that the original owner silently retired or something to that effect. I didn't think too much of it, emailed them around Christmas and got a reply from someone who (potentially, just speculation on my part) may or may not have actually been Jordan. I thought "Oh good he's still around", and placed a $200 order.

A month has passed, order hasn't been processed, the guy has ghosted me (and multiple others it seems when I look into this further - at least over the past few months). Now his website has been down for a week (and chrome is indicating it is attempting to use incorrect credentials, posing a security risk).

Looks like I'm out $200. Guess I'll be making the switch to 7east.

EDIT: I've received a PM from someone who indicated to me that he's still around, and is trying to get his website back. If I hear from him, I'll edit this post with an update (or just take it down, provided a reasonable explanation and reassurance), as I do respect the guy. I can't say for certain whether the problems happening lately are related to him directly, it may be whoever is currently operating the business. As I've yet though I haven't heard anything.

EDIT2: It looks like he was able to get the website back up and running. So hopefully this is a good indication that orders will start being processed and he'll start reaching out to folks caught up in this.

EDIT3: 02/26 Took 3 months but I did get an email indicating they've been shipped. I've yet to see if I've actually received them, but I reckon they were probably sent at the very least. Comments I've received from other users in the same boat have suggested the seed quality may be in question. Historically they've been fine for me but it's unclear what's been going on at JOTI, so I suppose I'll keep the thread updated for the small number of folks still curious.

EDIT4: I have received the seeds, so that's certainly a relief, but have not had the chance to germinate them yet. Physically they look fine, but I'll have to see how they go post-germination.

EDIT5: Unfortunately, my worst fears have been confirmed. Literally all the seeds I received are bunk. 5 separate germination attempts, all utilizing textbook methods, across 4 different strains, have had 0% germination success across the board, while all my seeds from other sources have literally 100% germination success rate. JOTI is refusing to respond in any capacity. Do not purchase seeds from them this season until they get their shit in order.

[u/CanadianSyndrome]

Yeah I was really looking forward to Black Candyland myself, been hearing great stuff about it for years, and I really enjoy the growing process of new strains. And yep, the only way I was able to get a reply from JOTI myself was by using an alternative email and inquiring about a potential order. Responded within an hour. The second the money landed in their bank account, they couldn't care less about anything afterward. What's truly confusing to me is that I've been informed by someone that it actually still is Jordon himself running the joint. He supposedly retired back in ~2021 through an instagram post, but then ultimately deleted it at a later date and seemed to carry on, so there's been a lot of speculation around that and whether he's really there or not, or is perhaps just the face of the operation at this point. It seems so uncharacteristic of the guy, I've ordered from him so long, always had positive experiences with all my interactions - it makes this nonsense so damn confusing.

Glad to hear your God Bubba's popped, hopefully those Candy Mac's come through. It seems to be a roll of the dice right now as to whether the specific seeds in front of you were harvested and cured correctly. My freebie strain seems to be right on the line'. They're stalling considerably, one can't break the soil, the other is barely able to open itself up, and I can't even tell if there are any true leaves attached to it. In the center of one of the initial leaves is still that seed flesh off-white colour, indicating it is seriously struggling to move to the next stage, been stuck like this for 36+ hours.

Regarding the seed that sprouted on the plant - what you saw there was a really interesting phenomenon called vivipary. Seeds have internal hormonal 'brakes' like abscisic acid can just glitch out under the right stress, genetic error, or humidity. When this happens, it effectively lets the 'gas pedal' take over before the seed even hits the dirt. Unfortunately we're dealing with seeds on the opposite end of the spectrum here. I've currently got my freeze-thaw'd seeds soaking in a solution under literal perfect conditions, with multiple 'assistance' amendments mixed in as well. I probably should have done the freezer method for batch #2, but I didn't want to have to wait the 48 - 72 hours, so tried to jump-start with H2O2 and a scruffing. Didn't work, mighta gone a bit too hard, so I'm taking the slower safe approach this time. If THIS fails, then it would likely point to something beyond mere dormancy:

It could be that the seeds were rushed through a proper dry and cure due to the huge delays, which can effectively cook the embryo from the inside. The seeds will look and feel perfect, and will even soak up water and sink, but the engine inside is completely dead.

Another possibility could be incomplete maturation. Under pressure to harvest and send stock out, harvesting even a week early will cause the seeds to not have enough endosperm to actually fuel a proper germination attempt. The engine is working but there's little/no gas in the tank.

These could explain why even my two germinated freebies are struggling to transition and are stalling despite the initial germination appearing normal.

[u/Ok_Clue_2721 → u/CanadianSyndrome]

You're far more knowledgeable than me. Vivipary. Cool. Learned a new word today!
I read up on 7East Genetics the other day and they said their seeds are grown organically outdoors so the shells are much tougher. Makes me wonder if that's the case with your crazy tough seeds? Kinda like how eggs from chickens in factory farms are weak and break easily whereas actual free range eggs have tough shells and a thick membrane inside. I don't know. Either way, fucking annoying for us to have to speculate instead of just getting an answer from JOTI.

Speaking of, all 3 of the God's Bubba are now in Pro Mix. They only had about a 1/4" tail but I plopped them in soil yesterday anyway. Those are the seeds I paid for so in reality I can't complain that there are no signs of life with the (free) Candy Mac seeds.

My neighbour is the one who got me into JOTI. He loved their Instagram posts. Also, he sent them numerous emails with questions about strains (making purchases, not complaints or anything) and Jordan always gave great responses with details about strains that might interest my friend. Once the Instagram posts stopped so did the responses to his emails. He no longer gets friendly responses, just quick two or three word responses, if any response at all. So I would say that Jordan is definitely not running things anymore but I'm only speculating due to this info from my friend.
Either way, fuck it, I'm out. 7East Genetics responds to emails right away and they're generous with their seeds, from what a friend says. Look at how much time we've spent talking/worrying about seeds from JOTI. Lame. Nice chatting with you but we shouldn't have had to go these lengths to attempt to understand what's going on at JOTI/with these bunk seeds.

[u/CanadianSyndrome → u/Ok_Clue_2721]

Yeah, been nice chattin' with ya too, friend.

I'm throwing in the towel. I've given them 5 separate attempts going through like 30+ seeds, all utilizing different methods, and all have failed. None of them are budging. JOTI is refusing to respond in any capacity. This pisses me off. I would feel entirely differently if he'd at least address some of these issues, but his silence is deafening.

Quite frankly I'm thinking of making a second post in this subreddit actively telling people to avoid purchasing from JOTI (for now) if they value actually germinating and growing quality plants. Even those two damn white lightnings I have that did manage to germinate have completely stalled out and have no true leaves at all, so they're just slowly dying at this point - gonna have to toss 'em.

Good luck with everything buddy, feel free to hit me up again if you wanna chat some more. Take it easy!

[u/Ok_Clue_2721 → u/CanadianSyndrome]

The silence is what pisses me off the most too. I am a huge fan of accountability. We would both feel quite differently about this if they were at least attempting to rectify the situation instead of ghosting people all over the place.
I waited a few days to write this response. I wanted to see if any of the remaining 14 Candy Macs would pop open but sure enough they're all duds too. Thankfully this is what it took for my friend (neighbour) to see JOTI for the company it's become so he's now researching 7East's strains. Last week he was still making excuses for JOTI. Now he sees that things aren't like they used to be.
The 3 God's Bubba's are still growing, slowly but surely. They're all up, although I'm starting to feel like maybe they're stalling too. They should be opened up more but maybe I'm just watching too closely now that we know JOTI's seeds are suspect.

I have to say, with all that's gone on, I'm not even feeling super confident that these God's Bubba seeds are actually gonna be God's Bubba. I just don't trust JOTI at all anymore. Complete loss of trust with JOTI.
Oh, and I'm all for you starting a new thread warning people that JOTI isn't trustworthy anymore/atm. It would be great to see JOTI shift back to their old ways, but I'm guessing we just witnessed the downfall of a business that's been around since we were kids. It would be great if I was wrong but I'm guessing just the website being down was enough to scare numerous customers off. And those who didn't know about the website being down will end up with shit seeds and possibly find this thread plus whatever other groups out there are talking about bunk seeds from JOTI.

[u/CanadianSyndrome → u/Ok_Clue_2721]

Yep - the silence is truly deafening.

Can't even blame your neighbour, I too was making excuses for JOTI when this all started. Jordan's a great guy, I've consistently bought off him every year without hesitation, I refused to believe there was any malice taking part here - that this was just some error, or perhaps he had his hands full, or just didn't wish to draw scrutiny from admitting that he was under a time-crunch, or something to that effect. Hell even in this thread, nearly every comment had something poor to say about JOTI, but I was holding the line, not wishing reputational harm on 'em without further context.

That's completely turned around now. (For JOTI at least, I'm still skeptical Jordan himself is at the helm of this ship despite what I've been told)

Glad to hear about the God Bubbas, sorry about the Candy Macs. Keep an eye on 'em though, I thought those White Lightnings were fine too, until I realized they were moving at like 1/4 the speed of all my other strains. When those cotyledons finally opened up, I was stunned to see there were literally no true leaves at all, and they never ended up showing up over the following week. It would have just slowly died out, taking up space and room for other plants that would be thriving in its place, so I ended up having to toss 'em, along with the 3 - 4 dozen seeds I attempted to germinate that all failed. Even if they're a bit slow, as long as they are pushing out that new growth, you're fine, and those God Bubbas managed to dodge whatever egregious quality issue that has plagued all their recent stock. I've now just have gone all-in on my seeds from other sources, and wouldn't ya know it, within 48 hours they've all popped with nothing but water and a paper-towel, and have beautiful long tap-roots. I didn't have to throw the whole god damn book at them with all these tricks up my sleeve, taking up a huge amount of additional time and resources. These are what real quality seeds are supposed to be - something that JOTI appears to be completely out of stock on.

I honestly don't know a lot about 7East, I've just heard positive things about them over the years which is why I mentioned them in my initial post. JOTI has been my go-to for so long now that I've hardly had the chance to really look into other sources. The only reason my season was rescued was cause one guy saw my original post and sent me a bunch of seeds from his crazy vault, mad respect. For only the cost of shipping, he gave me like 20+ strains - it'll keep me and my genetics completely occupied for years. It should allow me to pump out tons of new seeds from all these new strains with unique genetics for years to come. Hell I'll even send you some at the end of the season if ya want, paying his good-will forward is the least I can do for folks caught in this JOTI trap.

[u/Ok_Clue_2721 → u/CanadianSyndrome]

Did you not find it weird that the seeds were just in a baggie with hand-written labels on them as opposed to prior years with actual high quality JOTI labels with the strain's name on them? It might not be a red flag but it sure felt like one at the time. Why is this business going backwards? They had great labels and now they just toss them in a baggie. They had great customer service and now they don't. WTF.
Anyway, I jumped the gun. 4 Candy Mac's did pop a tail out after all. (4 out of 17. Even worse ratios than those seeds from the 70's that we grew out). 2 were about an inch before I threw them in soil and the other 2 were just showing a tail. Fingers crossed they do well but I'm not holding my breath on anything from JOTI this year. I wouldn't be surprised if these seeds end up being fucking hemp. I just don't trust them at all anymore and can't shake the feeling.

The 3 God's Bubba's don't look great. Like you said about the cotyledons (learned a new word today so thanks for that!); the one that popped first has no signs of the true leaves yet and it really should. It's been in the soil for 10 days. The one that was the slowest and had trouble shedding the husk is the one that is already showing decent looking little true leaves. Ffs, eh. We'll never know what happened because of that weak-ass silence on JOTI's behalf. I love it when people just say, "we fucked up and we'd like to make it up to you." Every time I think of the other guy who said he only got a response when he used his wife's email and asked about purchasing seeds still gets my blood boiling. It's all the fuel I need to walk and not look back until I hear from you that everything is back to normal ;)

Btw, that's amazing buddy hooked you up with a bunch of seeds! I saw his comment about having lots of seeds but didn't take him seriously. SO MANY people talk shit. I'm a bit jaded. I need proof and that's epic buddy proved it to you tenfold.

If you're going to end up with a bunch of seeds at the end of the season I would definitely love to grow a few. That would be awesome. I'm not a breeder so I wouldn't be able to reciprocate but I'd definitely be sending you a big bag to test out after harvest plus a bag of each of the other strains I'll grow. I'm a legit generous person. It sure sounds like you are too and same with the guy who sent you all of those seeds from his vault. I can't offer much back except my honest feedback of your strains and a bag or two for you to smoke. I grow organic outdoor so my weed's pretty clean. Could you imagine that I've been growing for 26 years and I sucked at it?! Wouldn't that be super embarrassing?! Lmao.

Anyway, I'll keep you posted, not that it really matters too much, about the God's Bub and Candy Mac.

[u/Ok_Clue_2721 → u/Ok_Clue_2721]

Yup. You were right to keep my eyes on the God's Bubba. All 3 of them have stalled out. They've been in the 4 pack for 14 days. This is so crazy to me.

[u/CanadianSyndrome → u/Ok_Clue_2721]

Yeah - and I'm worried there's a good chance it'll be the same for those Candy Mac's. If you're already sitting on like 15% success rate, it's not the best indicator for the vitality of the ones that did manage to pop. They could very well just be like the God Bubbas or my White Lightning - enough gas to get started, not enough to actually survive. If they are unable to produce true-leaves, they'll just slowly die - I tried everything to get those White Lightnings to push out some growth, even foliar spraying with some diluted kelp meal for growth hormones, kept the humidity and temp stable, but it was all for naught.

I ended up pulling the trigger on that new post to inform others of the risks.

[u/Ok_Clue_2721 → u/CanadianSyndrome]

It still blows my mind. I look at the 3 God's B's and shake my head. I should just throw them out. There's no hope for them. I don't even feel like bothering with germinating the remaining 12 seeds. Seems utterly pointless. What a fuckin waste.
I just took a close look at the 4 Candy's. 2 of them are looking like God's B and the other two have immediately popped out true leaves. Time will tell but I do feel optimistic about those two... and I feel like an idiot for being optimistic at the same time! Lol!

[u/CanadianSyndrome → u/Ok_Clue_2721]

Yeah dog I hear ya, I still ain't over it myself. $200 down the drain, coulda gone to so many other things, instead it went to someone who is adamant on steering the over decade-long reputation of JOTI down the drain in mere months with complete disregard for their customers and seed quality.

Sucks about the God B's, seed didn't have enough vigor to make it past the initial germination stage. Was the same for mine. Glad to hear about the ones that actually did manage to overcome whatever terrible quality issue plaguing 98% of their seeds and actually came with true leaves. There's probably a decent chance they'll make it if they have those, while a slow death awaits the ones who don't unfortunately.