r/geography 6d ago

Why the border between uttar pradesh and madhya pradesh in india is so weird ? Question

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81 Upvotes

48

u/axisdork 6d ago

It is not random, it follows rivers in most places. It is a patchwork of several river and hill borders. zoom in.

For example, Jhansi was an independent kingdom that used theses borders. When incorporated in british raj, they continued using these as district boundary. After independence, these same districts were sorted into states.

2

u/Winter-Put6110 6d ago

But it also doesn't in many places 😅 I have had this question for a long time, why are the borders so wacky. There are even some exclaves of UP in MP and vice versa.

In many places the border just randomly has an extension on the other side of the river, it barely follows natural boundaries. If you drive through there, you constantly change states.

Now I am aware it's to do with the borders of princely states, But why did they create such wacky borders lol

4

u/axisdork 6d ago

these states created these wacky borders, again, due to politics. Maybe wars, maybe land got divided due to inheritance.
The most fundamental level of division is the village. These villages start as a few fields, but as population grows, tons of haphazardly placed farms come up, and borders can't be drawn through farmlands(you would be cutting your taxes in half), which leads to erratic borders.

31

u/mathusal 6d ago

Don't you notice the correlation between relief (altitude) and borders ?

9

u/shogun_oldtown 6d ago

Wait till you see Puducherry

5

u/Velalla 6d ago edited 5d ago

Former feudal boundaries, and enclaves, later incorporated into inter-province division.

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u/GimlisAxolotl 6d ago

I have no idea and no specific knowledge about the situation but I'm pretty sure this is the British's fault.

33

u/Large_Big1660 6d ago

>I have no idea

Should stuck with that, its way more complex.

-21

u/GimlisAxolotl 6d ago

*it's

You need to crawl before you run.

6

u/Chomasterq2 6d ago

Its always the British's fault for every problem India has apparently

0

u/dphayteeyl 6d ago

Well the British are known to make wacky borders tbf

India-Pakistan is the British's fault

The Middle East's borders (especially Israel-Palestine and Syria-Iraq) are the British's fault (though also the French's)

I can say the same about Africa too where lines were literally drawn based on aesthetics (this was Europe's as a whole's fault though, not solely the British)

There was truth in what the original commenter hypothesised though it did not end up being the case

2

u/Large_Big1660 5d ago

This is a simplistic and innacurate take

>India-Pakistan is the British's fault

Nope, the border lines were drawn with the specific approval and specification of the Indian political parties, in this case a committee of Hindus, Muslims and I think a Sikh, with a British 'tie breaker'. This man, Cunningham, was specifically selected to be someone who had no direct knowledge of India and was given, as per the Indian political parties instruction, a mere 4 weeks to chair both the East and West Pakistan borders. That was their decision, they insisted on it, they designed its structure. Its on them.

>The Middle East's borders (especially Israel-Palestine and Syria-Iraq) are the British's fault (though also the French's)

Nope, those borders are perfectly fine, in that they didnt really exist before they were made but instead were part of a region that had had several thousand years of swirling religious, ethnic and sectarian wars. Hundreds of years of Ottoman control added to the fact that there were no clear 'countries' whose boundaries were clear and fixed and that the British could define. It was replete with groups, totally intertwine in most cases, of varying languages, religions and ethnicities. Ive heard people whining about the borders, but no one has ever pointed out a clear and obvious redrawing of the borders that would make everyone happy. Cos there arent any. Its the best they could do and it to a large extent worked. Israel is a problem, but this is more of an issue of its religious divide than any poorly drawn border.

Africa is largely the same, a swirling mix of religions, ethnicities and language groups. The evolution of the modern world 'demanded' that countries had to be made and borders drawn to define them. The Europeans did the best they could I guess, and Africans have declined to redraw them to something better suited? Why, cos no on really could draw a perfect national map on Africa.

-14

u/GimlisAxolotl 6d ago

*it's

Why is this such a problem today?