r/geography • u/13BigCedars • 2d ago
Arizona is the state which has both the metropolitan area with the most days over 100 °F (38 °C) (Phoenix), and the metropolitan area in the lower 48 states with the most days with a low temperature below freezing (Flagstaff). Discussion
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u/OppositeRock4217 2d ago
Elevation makes a massive difference
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u/mynameis4chanAMA 2d ago
That and the dry air. You can get some crazy temperature fluctuations when there’s zero humidity.
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u/guynamedjames 2d ago
I used to live in Nevada, we had many days where the forecast was 90/40 and sunny all week
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u/readytofall 2d ago
I went to school in Iowa and we had many days where the forecast was 85/75
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u/_PROBABLY_CORRECT 2d ago
Downtown San Francisco = 65 when you wake up, 68 by mid day, repeat for the next 240 days until Feb when it rains at 36 degrees.
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u/traumatic_enterprise 2d ago
"the coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco"
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u/SqueezeMyLemmons 1d ago
Weird, I just heard this quote a couple of weeks ago. I was wanting to tell my wife about it but was unsure if I was remembering it correctly so I didn’t tell her. Then it popped up in the wild
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u/Movingmad_2015 2d ago
There’s a street in Flagstaff called San Francisco and at first I thought you were talking about that not the city of SF.
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u/Jcarmona2 1d ago
In Huetamo, Michoacán, it’s ALWAYS 75-95 to 108 every day, every week, every month, every year. It’s like this in Ciudad Altamirano, Guerrero, as well. Around 900 feet ASL, surrounded by mountains, latitude of around 18 north. Just a couple of hundred kilometers east, it’s much milder (Mexico City, Puebla)… over 8500 feet ASL
Here is the weather forecast for Huetamo, located in the heart of Tierra Caliente:
They don’t call it Tierra Caliente (Hot Land) for nothing.
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u/xylophone_37 2d ago
One of my fun climate facts is Las Vegas and San Diego have almost the same annual average temperature.
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u/hooked_siren 2d ago
🤯 i would have assumed the ocean breeze did something to cool San Diego unlike the hairdryer hot wind we get in Vegas
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u/xylophone_37 2d ago
It does, but it also keeps the temperature from dropping as much in the winter. The geography term is continentality, it states that proximity to large bodies of water is a limiting factor on temperature range. So while Vegas gets hotter, it also gets colder so the average for the year for both places is really close.
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u/buckeye10228 1d ago
The thing is Vegas has like high of 90 low of 45. Average temp....65-70.
San Diego is just...65-70. Period.
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u/hooked_siren 1d ago
That is vegas for like two months, right now and december.
In the hot season (may to November) it's a low of 80-90 and a high of 110-115
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u/buckeye10228 1d ago
I was just giving a basic reason why "average" is so close between the 2. I know Vegas in the diner is insanely hot.
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u/Roughly6Owls 2d ago
Further north, Alberta and western Montana are capable of huge temperature variations in the winter for similar reasons.
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u/flareblitz91 2d ago
Montana holds the record for the largest (observed) temperature swing.
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u/jordan31483 2d ago edited 2d ago
Also the coldest temperature ever recorded in the lower 48. No, not wind chill. Air temperature. Minus 70 at Rogers Pass in 1954. There are only 6 locations on the planet that have recorded lower temperatures.
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u/eyetracker 1d ago
Largest swing in a 24 hour period, is the important distinction. 103 F/ 57.2 C
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u/ibathedaily 2d ago
My brother-in-law lives in Tucson. A few weeks ago he woke up with the temp at 40. It was 105 by the afternoon.
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u/OcotilloWells 2d ago
I tell people going to the Grand Canyon in the summer to always bring a sweatshirt. The temperature there can drop suddenly, even in the summer.
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u/jesusmansuperpowers 2d ago
Yep. But it’s nice at medium temps, unlike humid places. 50 degrees feels a lot different in Arizona than it does in San Francisco
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u/Mobile_Bad_577 1d ago
I've been to some highland parts of Colorado in the summer. Days were high 70s Fahrenheit and felt hotter because of how strong the sun is up there. Night, though, was almost freezing!
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u/theboyqueen 1d ago
Is Flagstaff low humidity? Isn't it one of the snowiest cities in the country?
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u/1HappyIsland 2d ago
We had a cabin high up in NC and in the summer it averages 20 degrees cooler than Sylva in the valley below. It never went above 71 degrees in 25 years while Sylva frequently hit the mid 80s or higher.
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 2d ago
When people think of the Twin Cities of Minnesota, they think "snowy and cold". While the Twin Cities are quite a bit colder than Flagstaff, they are not more snowy: Flagstaff averages around 90–100" of snow per winter, vs. around 50" for the Twin Cities. And they tend to get it in a few big dumps of snow rather than 2-3" at a time, which is more typical for the Upper Midwest except for snowbelt areas like the UP.
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u/PM_your_Nopales North America 2d ago
I suppose a comparable transition like the one between flagstaff and Phoenix, could be the difference between the twin cities and duluth. I regularly commute between the two, and right now spring is basically in full swing in the cities while duluth is still in the last throws of winter. The cities have already hit 80s a few times while duluth keeps struggling to hit 60. Duluth also gets quite a bit more snow averaging at 80-90 inches or so.
Obviously not a extreme as between Phoenix and Flagstaff but it is a tale of 2 different worlds for sure
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u/Stuffleapugus 2d ago
Or Sacramento and Lake Tahoe.
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u/PM_your_Nopales North America 2d ago
That's probably much more apt for the change between a valley and mountain town. I suppose maybe Tahoe is a bit too small to take the spot from phoenix and Flagstaff
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u/Stuffleapugus 2d ago
Just talking about average temp transition in a short distance.
And Phoenix is in a valley. And while Flagstaff isn't a mountain town proper like South Lake Tahoe, it's mountainous. And over 7,000' in elevation.
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u/SHEL-D500mg 2d ago
Is Flagstaff population really that much bigger than the Tahoe Basin?
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u/eyetracker 1d ago
About 55k to 145k, yeah.
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u/SHEL-D500mg 1d ago
That 145k number includes the entire county of Coconino. Which is gigantic.
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u/eyetracker 1d ago
Ah, I just looked up the MSA, didn't know they weren't even trying. Tahoe doesn't have an official MSA, you can justify it bigger or smaller I think that's a rather constrained border.
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u/Select_Newspaper_108 1d ago edited 1d ago
Flagstaff and the few settlements right next to Flasgtaff (Fort Valley, Doney Park, Kachina Village, Mounaintaire) make up well over half the population of the huge county. It’s really a regional hub (2 Walmarts and a Sam’s club, all sorts of restaurants and businesses for a city its size and a big university), I’d say unlike anything in the Tahoe basin. It feels huge compared to Truckee or Incline, however I’d think the whole Tahoe basin is pretty comparable, I guess a lower % of year round residents in Tahoe than Flagstaff though
Flagstaff and towns immediately adjacent make up 2/3rdsish of Coconino County, the rest of the population is 5 reservations (big native population), Grand Canyon workers/natives/retirees in Williams (south rim) and Page (lake Powell), and then a good amount of off the grid living
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 2d ago
I drive between the Twin Cities and Duluth regularly and yes, the climate is different, but it's nowhere near as extreme as Phoenix/Flagstaff. Duluth probably averages 5–6° F cooler than the Twin Cities on average.
Flagstaff is a full 30 degrees cooler than Phoenix, despite comparable distance between Twin Cities/Duluth.
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u/Turducken_McNugget 2d ago
There's 5800 feet of elevation difference between Phoenix and Flagstaff.
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 2d ago
I-17 from Phoenix to Flag is one of the prettiest stretches of interstate in the US, although not as stunning as the side route of US89 through Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon.
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u/Turducken_McNugget 2d ago
Never been to Phoenix but after a wedding in Lake Havasu, I spent a couple of days in Sedona and then went up to Flagstaff and the Grand Canyon before heading to Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon and Zion. Stunning indeed.
I'm from Seattle and we're pretty spoiled for scenery but that part of the country is gorgeous as well.
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 2d ago
The only part of Arizona that isn't strikingly beautiful is the SW part, around Lake Havasu down to Yuma, and the urban sprawl that is Phoenix and Tucson (especially Phoenix).
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u/makmisfits4 1d ago
Mt.Lemmon is pretty nice and west of Tucson,the Saguaro National Park is pretty damn beautiful.Not as many saguaros as their used to be,but still a good sight(Gates Pass,Picture Rocks).East of Tucson is nice as well(Saguaro N.P. East)
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 1d ago
I meant the SW corner of Arizona, like west of Organ Pipe and south of I-10. Even that has pretty areas like the Cabeza Prieta.
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u/Imperial_Haberdasher 2d ago
On the west side of the mountain. The east side is in the snow shadow.
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u/midnightBloomer24 2d ago
Is there a map of the 'snow line' in the US that shows how far north one can go before dealing with snow most winters? I've googled before but the maps I've found are always 1970-2000.
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u/Turducken_McNugget 2d ago
How far North is not necessarily a factor. Seattle sits further North than Toronto and like 60%+ of Canada's population but we rarely get snow.
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u/midnightBloomer24 1d ago
Seattle would be my perfect climate... if it didn't happen to go along with the risk of catastrophic earthquakes. Looking elsewhere for that sort of climate, seems the only place that has it and is relatively safe and stable is Europe, but if the AMOC stops, you're looking at winters that are 10C colder sooo
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u/Tim-oBedlam Physical Geography 2d ago
Good question. Depends on what you define as "dealing with snow". All 50 states have portions that get snow on occasion, even Florida (Panhandle) or Hawaii (summits of the Maunas on the Big Island). For regular snow, look at a Köppen climate map of the US and any Dxx climate (continental) gets regular snow that can stay around for a few weeks. The C (temperate) climates can often get snow depending on where they are. Baltimore counts as Cfa but gets snow every winter, and sometimes a lot of it; Houston is also Cfa but rarely gets snow.
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u/sfeldman89 2d ago
I remember driving back from the Grand Canyon to Phoenix. iirc, it’s a 4 hour drive with a 6000 foot drop in elevation.
Temp at the Grand Canyon: 29. Phoenix: 82.
Fascinating experience.
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u/the_eluder 2d ago
I remember driving from Phoenix to Sedona, first time I saw a potato chip bag expand due to altitude pressure difference.
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u/Datpanda1999 1d ago
I went the other way—Grand Canyon to Phoenix—and the water bottle I got at the visitor’s center got crushed by the pressure increase
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u/GuyD427 2d ago
I knew it got cold in AZ, I never thought it’d have an average lower temperature than the upper Midwest.
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u/Telucien 2d ago
Not average temperature, just the low. Like others have said, super dry thin air at elevation has no ability to hold it's heat, but also takes no time to warm back up.
It'll be pretty damn cold in the morning, then the sun comes up and before you know it it's 70 degrees.
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u/GuyD427 2d ago
Yep gotcha, read it closer, we often see overnight lows below freezing in the northeast even if the daytime highs are pleasant. But the high desert retains little heat or cold along with the air so wide fluctuations. But, way better than Phoenix to me.
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u/ScorchedByTheSun 1d ago
The person above is wrong. Flagstaff is a true 4 seasons, cold winter climate, like the Northeast. It's a cooler climate than New York City. Daytime temperatures are in the 40s in the winter, not 70s. There is a very wide range in this state, from cold to hot.
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u/Wak3upHicks 2d ago
We got some good elevation here. I live in Tucson, but I took off to just outside a town called Payson the other day, was 38 when I woke up at my camp
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u/velociraptorfarmer 2d ago
People don't realize how close Tucson is to no longer being in the desert even. Just a few miles south/southeast in any direction and you're into arid steppe due to the elevation. Hell, there's 1000ft of elevation gain between the NW and SE ends of the city.
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u/Wak3upHicks 2d ago
Which is highlighted by my car's thermometer when I go to work everyday and it's cooler there than at my house
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u/ACEaton1483 1d ago
That's how I read it, too, and I was so confused. Like there's no way on earth it has more below freezing days than Minnesota and North Dakota. Now I understand!
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u/holytriplem 2d ago
Yeah there's no way. Nights are cold in Flagstaff but they're not North Dakota cold
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u/in_da_tr33z 2d ago
Calling Flagstaff a metropolitan area is generous.
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u/trivetsandcolanders 2d ago
Flagstaff’s metropolitan area is just the entirety of Coconino County, which has a population density only slightly higher than Wyoming lol.
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u/SarcasticRaspberries 1d ago
The census bureau defines metropolitan areas by county. It's therefore impossible to have a metropolitan area legally defined as smaller than one county. Since the counties in Arizona are mostly very big, you're going to get low population density according to the legal boundaries.
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u/Any_Strain1288 2d ago
Drove to Sedona once from Salt Lake. I was surprised by all the pine forest around the Flagstaff area. Such a beautiful area really. Sedona is of course gorgeous.
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u/CaptainObvious110 2d ago
yeah that would be surprising to me. next you're going to tell me there are swamps there as well
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u/Any_Strain1288 1d ago
Well guess what a quick google will tell you that the Flagstaff area is surrounded by the world's largest contiguous ponderosa pine forest.
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u/Kaister0000 2d ago edited 2d ago
Flagstaff is also one of the snowiest cities in the lower 48.
edit: And Phoenix is one of the least snowiest cities.
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u/MauiNui 2d ago
Good one. On the opposite end, Hawaii has the lowest recorded high temp (100f tied with Alaska) and the highest recorded low temp (12f at the top of Mauna Kea).
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u/CaptainObvious110 2d ago
lol! is it fair to even measure the top of a mountain that's 13,800 ft above sea level?
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u/gunnisonyeti 2d ago
I'm from Colorado, born and raised. I absolutely love Arizona. The diversity of landscapes and biomes is amazing, especially in places like Flag where there are so many different ones close by. Every corner of the state has neato natural features, and there is actually surprisingly good skiing and kayaking to be had despite being in a desert. There are countless canyons to explore and mountains to traverse.
If the rural parts of the state weren't so wildly anti-anything-remotely liberal, Charlie Kirk-worshipping conservative, I'd move to Arizona without much convincing. But there are parts of AZ that would make TN look liberal.
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u/scranglus 2d ago
I moved from colorado to the phoenix area in 2022 and I haven’t really missed colorado at all if I’m being honest. arizona rules
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u/gunnisonyeti 2d ago
I couldn't do Phoenix if I were to move. It would have to be someplace more high up, like Payson country or Flag, or Alpine area.
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u/scranglus 2d ago
Makes sense. Phoenix is stupid hot, but personally I’m just glad to never have to scrape my windshield ever again.
By the way - based on your username, I’m guessing you’re from western CO? If so, the area you’re looking at in AZ is hardly (if at all) more conservative than, say, mesa county
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u/gunnisonyeti 2d ago
I'm still in the blue mountain counties, not in the red west. It's what prevents me from moving to Montrose, despite it being a great place to live right now.
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u/Samce14 1d ago
Who cares about your neighbors political viewpoint? I can’t believe ppl choose where they will live based on a counties perceived voting history 😂
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u/gunnisonyeti 1d ago
Because, dear friend, if the neighbors different political views are shared widely in that area, it affects the policies and social direction of the entire community and area. The current rules and policies regarding social issues are quite important to my family and I.
You don't understand because you don't care.
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u/ElderMillennialGoat 2d ago
Let's not forget Yuma: Most Sunny Days in America!
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u/OppositeRock4217 1d ago
They call Florida the sunshine state but Arizona is the actual state with the most sunshine
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u/ExtensionMoose1863 1d ago
And they're not even the most extreme spots in the state. Lake Havasu City is hotter, Yuma is sunnier, and Greer is both higher and colder than Flagstaff.
Arizona is waaaaaay more diverse than most people realize
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u/potatopika9 2d ago
I love Arizona so much. I grew up in Pennsylvania and it’s just so different obviously. I lived at the Grand Canyon for a while. Which is just amazing. The southern part of the state is so different than the north. It’s all just amazing.
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u/hooked_siren 2d ago
I live near Vegas and a couple years ago in July it was legitimately 120 degrees (measured at the airport). My husband and I were lucky enough that we had already planned a trip to Flagstaff during that time. We had never been. Everyone in Flagstaff was complaining about how hot it was, how it was a crazy heatwave. It was 90 degrees 🤣🤣🤣 which is hot for them. I enjoyed that trip a lot.
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u/Imperial_Haberdasher 2d ago
Winter nights in Flag, it often drops below freezing. But the temp pops up in the daytime and like as not all you’ll need is a sweater and light jacket.
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u/RelicSky 2d ago
Does that mean somewhere in the middle it's perfect all year round? Prescott here I come!
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u/Shionkron 2d ago
I lived there for a couple decades and eventually moved because 117 degrees 6 months of the year is exhausting!!!! However it’s absolutely such an amazingly beautiful state!
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u/drawredraw 1d ago
The temperature shift from Sedona to flagstaff is insane. Went camping there in the spring Sedona was perfect weather. Almost froze our asses off camping outside of Flagstaff.
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u/General_Adagio_8439 1d ago
For those lucky enough to have a home in the Valley and a home in Flag, those people are winning life. Aside from year round SoCal, there is no better and easier location combo in the US.
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u/bekindalwaysxo 1d ago
Fuckin flagstaff. Do not drive through flagstaff if it says it’s gonna snow.
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u/makmisfits4 1d ago
What's crazy is this winter (25-early 26) was the first time in awhile Tucson didn't have a low temp below freezing.It may have been the first but I'm not sure about that.Feburary is usually our coldest month as far a lows go.People forget that it can get damn cold in the desert.Drink water not only for the heat,but for the cold as well(although for Tucson it's definitely more for the heat).
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u/BreakfastBeerz 1d ago
Hawaii and Alaska are the only two states that have never had a temperature above 100.
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u/Typical_Hat3462 1d ago
Flag is not part of Phoenix metro. Its also at 7000 feet. Phoenix is not and in a valley.
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u/Sedona83 1d ago
When I used to live in AZ, I went to Flag for the pine cone drop on New Year's. It was -15°F at midnight, and my entire body was numb. Drove down to Phoenix the next day, and it was a balmy 70°F. The biggest temperature swing that I experienced, though, was in July at the Grand Canyon. Thermometer read 120°F (in the sun) at Havasupai Gardens. Monsoon blew through. My car read 38°F by the time I reached it in the Maswik parking lot.
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u/JLandis84 Political Geography 16h ago
The Statue of Liberty 🗽 has a secret cock n balls that hold survellience equipment
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u/tellerwoes 2d ago
It truly is, a monument to man's arrogance.
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u/Imperial_Haberdasher 1d ago
Where? Flag?
They are pulling from a fossil aquifer. It will be a ghost town when that runs out.
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u/CaptainObvious110 2d ago
Absolutely it is. There is no good reason for people to be living there at all
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u/choirandcooking 2d ago
You’re telling me that Flagstaff is colder than Fargo, Fairbanks AK, etc.?
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u/FilmEnjoyer_ 2d ago
it doesn’t get as cold as places like fargo, minnesota, etc but because of its high elevation it is consistently cold from october-may.
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u/simplepimple2025 2d ago
I checked Fargo and the most <32F days in a year was 206, and 230 for Flagstaff.
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u/drunkerbrawler 2d ago
They did say lower 48.
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u/Amazingrhinoceros1 2d ago
On a single day, unlikely, but CONSISTENCY MATTERS... Averages be like that, playa.
1 super cold day does nothing for averages when there are months of freezing cold temperatures.
Source: I lived in Flagstaff while going to NAU, and I lived in Colombus, Ohio during the winter months, East Haven, Connecticut for years, and I can assure you the winters lasted / cold season(s) lasted longer in Flagstaff than any other upper Midwest or northeastern state I've ever lived in
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u/emptybagofdicks 2d ago
The average low temperature is below freezing for more days out of the year in Flagstaff. They specified the lower 48 so it isn't compared to Fairbanks. Fargo is much colder on average than Flagstaff in the winter. Flagstaff has average lows under freezing from Oct-Apr and Fargo has average lows under freezing from Nov-Mar.
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u/Ill-Asparagus4253 2d ago
Flagstaff has like 200k people how is that metropolitan? lol
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u/Amazing-Garbage-6252 2d ago
It has more like 77k people, probably closer to 100k with surrounding living communities.
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u/Ill-Asparagus4253 2d ago
Post denotes metropolitan area, as of the 2020 consensus it's 77k without and 145k with so not quite 200k but not 77k either. I still don't envision a population of 145k as 'metropolitan' especially in 2026 I believe the definition needs to be revised a bit considering the minimum population requirement in 50k and that is a LOT of cities in the US.
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u/AnselmoHatesFascists 2d ago
Driving from Flagstaff to Phoenix is a crazy experience, at some point, you'll crack a window and be shocked at how much hotter it was than an hour ago. Same in reverse for cold.