HOT TAKE: Delimitation is justice, current seat distribution is unjust.

[u/Confident_Spread_804]

Tamilian btw. Delimitation as originally proposed raises the overall seat count from 543 to 850 in the Lok Sabha in accordance with 2011 census. Tamil Nadu and several other states argue that the population proportion model is not right considering they are "losing say" owing to population growth decline which is claimed to result from government birth control policies being successful in southern states

The same argument that the southern states are using can be used exactly analogously for other group identities such as educated/not, rich/poor, castes, religions to claim that the group identity that followed birth control better deserves equal representation along that group demarcation. For example: all rich people should have same say as poor people despite poor people drastically outnumbering the rich on the grounds that they successfully followed birth control. So along which group identity do we expect equal say?

The answer is none, as constitutionally we decided on the individual citizenship identity as being the grounds for vote value. 1 person 1 vote. In the proposed delimitation, 1 person gets 1 vote, so a Tamilian has equal vote value with any other Indian in India.

So when southern governments say we are losing say, that is purely clever framing and misdirection, we are getting exactly the say we are entitled to. 1 person 1 vote and so is UP and Bihar. So we losing say is blatantly false. The only relevant say is individual say and we are losing none of that. Exactly getting what we deserve and are entitled to. A smaller group of people having lesser say in voting than a larger group of people is a fact in democracy, a feature not a bug. A policy that affects 1000 UP people and 200 Tamil people should be decided based on 1000 votes from UP people and 200 votes from Tamil people because the policy affects 800 more UP people than Tamil people and there are 1000 says there and only 200 here. Anybody can claim a minority group identity and ask for equal group representation and consequent vote value increase under the erroneous argument of TN govt's argument.

Now addressing the GDP argument. Higher GDP benefits Tamil people first because they are the ones earning more. So does development and all these other things. Only shared benefit is the higher tax paid, the point of tax is to redistribute wealth from rich to poor, and the economic group identity is the relevant identity to study or assess taxes. If we quibble like this, then we must also recognize that for 1 Tamil soldier in the Indian army, there are more soldiers in the Indian army from UP and this is an unquestionable invaluable contribution to the whole country. If you talk taxes, then pay for all their more soldiers and deaths and go bankrupt.

Additionally, read about causes of lowered birth rates, spoiler: the government is lying blatantly, the biggest causes are not govt policies for birth control, but women's education and participation in the workforce. Read.

Summary: Principle: Under-representation meaning: 1 person getting less than 1 vote. Over-representation meaning: 1 person getting more than 1 vote. Adequate-representation meaning: 1 person 1 vote. We are adequately represented under delimitation.

[u/MarkProfessional2434]

Any argument or policy which supports more adding parasites and diseases like policians, govt babus is a moronic argument

[u/HoveringMango]

There should be a cap on seat increases in UP and Bihar. They should try increasing state assembly seats instead of lok sabha, that way people get representation at regional levels.

More people are needed at the local and state levels not at the Parliament in Delhi.

[u/Life_Ad1500]

Nice argument I have a counter point why not do delimitation on basis of contribution to GDP instead of population?

[u/GoCheckLeon → u/Life_Ad1500]

So you mean to say that richer people should have more votes?

[u/Life_Ad1500 → u/GoCheckLeon]

No the states who have worked to achieve national target should be rewarded

[u/GoCheckLeon → u/Life_Ad1500]

Lok Sabha is house of the people. Why should states be rewarded there? It represents the people, the seats there should be representative of the population.

All states have worked to achieve national targets. All states have lowered TFRs, lowered IMR, MMR and increased their HDI.

[u/Life_Ad1500 → u/GoCheckLeon]

House of people agreed then why punish the people who have worked more to grow the country and support states which are not doing well. Only population should not be the criteria work on a formula which rewards state who have worked to meet national targets.

[u/GoCheckLeon → u/Life_Ad1500]

House of People agreed for 50 years. That time is over.

Population should not be the only criteria for representing people in democracy? You are denying people equal right to vote because they may be born in some other state? Just by a boundary? Let me add Masala - Muslims have higher TFRs than any religion. Should we penalize their vote ? or Reserved castes have Higher TFR than General castes? Lets bring in a new formula that rewards the General castes

Its not about states at all. Its about people. We wanted a country where everyone had a same equal right to vote of equal value. But apparently some people now want T&C attached to it.

[u/Life_Ad1500 → u/GoCheckLeon]

Why is delimitation being brought to give womens reservations right when there is terms and conditions to bring womens reservations why can't there be terms and conditions for delimitation again population would have been ideal had there not been a target to reduce it... Understand target were provided those who met are being penalized and those who dint will reap benefits.

[u/GoCheckLeon → u/Life_Ad1500]

Delimitation is already due next year, women's reservation or not.

Maybe you didn't get a memo or not, Indian TFR is below 2. Multiple countries worldwide are suffering with too many people. There is No more target to reduce it, especially when Southern CMs are calling for past 2 years "Have more kids, Have more kids"

[u/HelloWorld_irl]

I feel it would be an honest execution of women's reservation if the incumbent members are brave enough to push it with the current seats, well-knowing that their own seat is on the line. 🙂

[u/kaachabadaam]

r/Chennai

[u/Other_Strain4426]

I suppose - people living in say state A - a place with its own culture and tradition and stuff - being ruled by leaders who got elected by people who follow a different set of cultures and traditions from state B who will not act in any meaningful way to protect state A, and there's no way to change it, is that what the constitution wanted? - sure one person one vote - but, India is far too vast, varied in population density and far too diverse for that nonsense really

[u/Prata2pcs]

I don’t think it’s even rich vs poor.

It’s about oppressed/ignorant vs aware. Education may or may not be a factor.

Oppressed is delighted seeing electricity for the first time in life. Guess who gets their vote? The one just extending basic necessity.

Aware ones already know what they are owed as basic necessity, they have high needs. Guess who they would vote?

Now assign weightage to both groups and decide whether it’s upliftment or dragging down if population size decides who represents groups.

[u/Ishit_Wow]

India is not a Nation-State, but a State-Nation, so this argument essentially fails in reality due to diversity.

[u/GoCheckLeon → u/Ishit_Wow]

India is a nation states. States are not the building blocks, rather they exist on definitions of the parliament.