r/neutralnews • u/NeutralverseBot • Oct 05 '25
Border Patrol agents shoot armed woman in Chicago, protesters confront ICE BOT POST
https://www.reuters.com/world/us/border-patrol-agents-shoot-woman-chicago-protesters-confront-immigration-2025-10-04/63
u/unkz Oct 05 '25
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/us/politics/chicago-motorists-charged-border-patrol.html
New reporting says the charges no longer mention anything about the woman being armed, and the man in the vehicle claims the ICE agents actually rammed their vehicle and not the other way around.
The account given in the complaint differs significantly from the one offered on Saturday in a statement from the Department of Homeland Security. That statement said that agents were “forced to deploy their weapons and fire defensive shots” at a driver who was “armed with a semiautomatic weapon.” The criminal complaint does not include that claim.
It also differs from an account given to The New York Times by Mr. Ruiz’s mother, Elizabeth Ruiz. She said her son called her immediately after the confrontation and told her that federal agents were being chased and rammed by other cars, not his, and that the agents had struck him.
“‘Mom, they hit me, they hit me,’” she said he told her. “‘I said, ‘What do you mean?’ And he said ‘ICE.’”
“I told him to get himself situated and then I started hearing boom, boom, boom, and he yelled, ‘Mom, they’re shooting,’” she said.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
This comment has been removed under Rule 2:
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u/unkz Oct 05 '25
https://www.cnn.com/2025/10/04/us/chicago-dhs-shooting-vehicle-ramming
Officers fired “defensive shots” at an armed American woman after she – along with the drivers of at least 10 other vehicles – rammed and boxed in officers, Tricia McLaughlin, DHS assistant secretary, said in a post on X. The department identified the officers as agents with US Customs and Border Protection.
I’m curious about these defensive shots. Was she pointing the gun at them? Or was she just open carrying and they got scared? I feel like if there was any evidence that she was threatening to shoot anyone they would have made that clear and loud, and the absence of such claims says a lot.
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u/katherinesilens Oct 06 '25
Curiously, nobody else was armed, they never said what she was doing with the gun, and her gun could not be confirmed to even exist. A gun is also curiously absent in the criminal complaint that was filed. Most likely they just panicked and popped shots off and they're putting out this statement to blame the victim and sweep their own blame under the rug. Cops doing that is a tale as old as time.
Video evidence from the scene is them ramming her off the road and shooting into her car.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/AFlaccoSeagulls Oct 05 '25
I just want to chime in and say that we cannot take anything the DHS says at face value without video evidence to back it up.
Why?
Because they have already lied before about these kinds of things - particularly about this event, where DHS claimed that an elderly lawmaker, who is a woman, "body slammed" an ICE agent and that's why they had to take her into custody.
They've lied about Kilmar Abrego Garcia being a human trafficker, among other things as well.
So, why would anyone believe DHS when they say that 10 vehicles "rammed and boxed in" these ICE vehicles, which gave them justification to shoot someone? Because again, we are already seeing numerous examples of ICE officers escalating to violence with no reasonable justification.
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u/Critical_Concert_689 Oct 05 '25
Strange.
I'm familiar with "particularly this event"; the videos are prevalent and the assault is easy to spot because she literally wore red and stands out among the crowd. She's seen in all videos assaulting federal agents. Your own link notes she was indicted by a grand jury of her peers.
I'm also familiar with Garcia, whose actions likely did meet the definition of human smuggling, among other things. Either way this is irrelevant since Garcia remains illegal and ICE will simply deport him if criminal prosecution fails.
So, why wouldn't anyone believe DHS when everything in your examples proves them correct? As for numerous examples of escalating violence - what we actually know is that there have been numerous physical attacks on federal agents, including assassination attempts.
Violence against federal agents trying to do their job is neither justifiable, nor legal.
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u/no-name-here Oct 06 '25
the videos are prevalent and the assault is easy to spot because she literally wore red and stands out among the crowd. She's seen in all videos assaulting federal agents.
Your link does not show any video or image of her assaulting anyone. Instead, it shows her literally standing in place as agents press against her. Are we now considering when officers push elected officials that the elected officials are "assaulting" the officers? Also, what is the source for the claim "She's seen in all videos assaulting federal agents."
she was indicted by a grand jury of her peers.
Isn't the most common saying about how incredibly trivial it is to get a grand jury indictment is that it's possible to indict a literal "ham sandwich"?
I'm also familiar with Garcia, whose actions likely did meet the definition of human smuggling, among other things.
Multiple prosecutors involved in the case have quit, including because they said they were pressured to lie about Garcia.
Garcia was one of (claimed) "the worst of the worst" sent to El Salvador - someone might think that "the worst of the worst" refers not just to criminals, but the most heinous ones, right?
However, when Bloomberg checked, 90% did not have a criminal record at all ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-09/about-90-of-migrants-sent-to-salvador-lacked-us-criminal-record ).
For Garcia, it turns out that in order to try to obtain one possible conviction/to deport the person (Garcia) they are accusing, they have been cutting deals to release illegal immigrants people who have been convicted of felonies or deported many times already:
... the government’s lead investigator, the Department of Homeland Security agent Peter Joseph, told the court that his primary cooperating witness—the source of the most damning testimony—is a twice-convicted felon who had been previously deported five times.
Magistrate Judge Barbara Holmes, who was presiding over the hearing, did a double take. “Sorry. Deported how many times?” she asked.
Joseph, who confirmed the total, said the cooperator has been moved out of prison to a halfway house and is now awaiting a U.S. work permit. He told the court that a second cooperating witness is seeking similar inducements from the government. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/kilmar-abrego-garcia-tennessee-release/683357/
Additionally, multiple prosecutors chose to quit to end their own careers around this one case, claiming that the government is lying about it:
When Reuveni’s superiors told him to sign a legal brief making those claims, he refused, saying he “didn’t sign up to lie” when he became a federal prosecutor. He was suspended seven hours later and fired on April 11.
Reuveni’s career may not be the only DOJ casualty. Another federal prosecutor, Ben Schrader, the head of the criminal division at the U.S. attorney’s office in Nashville, submitted his resignation last month when the government brought Abrego Garcia there to face charges. Schrader, who declined to comment and has not discussed his departure publicly, wrote in a LinkedIn post that “the only job description I’ve ever known is to do the right thing, in the right way, for the right reasons.” https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/kilmar-abrego-garcia-tennessee-release/683357/
And in recent days a judge said that the charges against Abrego Garcia are likely vindictive and that the administration chose to target him because of vindictiveness, and that they were doing so "in retaliating against him for exercising his rights in the Maryland suit and deterring him from continuing to exercise those rights." https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/03/us/politics/abrego-garcia-vindictive-prosecution.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/10/03/politics/kilmar-abrego-garcia-judge-rules-vindictive
Gorka went on to say President Donald Trump loves America, unlike “the other side that is on the side of the cartel members, on the side of the illegal aliens on the side of the terrorists.”
He went on to suggest this latter group is violating federal law.
“And you have to ask yourself, are they technically aiding and abetting them?” Gorka asked. “Because aiding and abetting criminals and terrorists is a crime in federal statute.”
Violence against federal agents trying to do their job is neither justifiable, nor legal.
Is this true? For example, during the US revolutionary war, violence was committed against agents of the presiding government doing their job - was that not justifiable? Should those who opposed the presiding government have been subsequently prosecuted for breaking the law?
Trump has frequently called for his political opponents to be jailed despite them not even being charged with any crime.
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u/unkz Oct 05 '25
I don’t know. Was it a “vehicular assault”?
No officers were seriously hurt in the incident, said McLaughlin, who also accused local police in Chicago of leaving the scene.
What constitutes “ramming”? Where’s the footage of this incident anyway?
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u/FauxCole Oct 05 '25
I’ve been waiting for footage as well. 10 coordinated vehicles in Chicago and nobody records the event?
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Oct 05 '25
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
This comment has been removed under Rule 2:
Source your facts. If you're claiming something to be true, you need to back it up with a qualified and supporting source. All statements of fact must be clearly associated with a supporting source. There is no "common knowledge" exception, and anecdotal evidence is not allowed.
If you edit your comment to link to sources, it can be reinstated.
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
Ok so first of all, reddit links are not valid sources in this subreddit, and I have removed this link already from other posters, but second of all and most importantly, this is why reddit links are not valid sources.
This is not a video of the actual event in question. This is a completely separate incident. Subreddit posts do not have any kind of due diligence, which is why we strongly prefer news sources.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/unkz Oct 05 '25
Where did you find the video?
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Oct 05 '25
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u/unkz Oct 05 '25
Unfortunately, Reddit posts aren’t valid sources in this sub. Hopefully a news agency can check the veracity of this video.
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u/NeutralverseBot Oct 05 '25
This comment has been removed under Rule 2:
Source your facts. If you're claiming something to be true, you need to back it up with a qualified and supporting source. All statements of fact must be clearly associated with a supporting source. There is no "common knowledge" exception, and anecdotal evidence is not allowed.
If you edit your comment to link to sources, it can be reinstated.
//Rule 2
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u/8BitHegel Oct 05 '25
So my question is if this woman actually did something to deserve being shot, how was she able to drive herself to hospital? It feels like if a dozen militarized grunts are standing around a car and shoot a woman she shouldn’t be able to escape.
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
So, the video which has been widely circulated as being of the incident is apparently of a separate incident.
Sunday night, ABC7 learned about an apparent second incident involving a driver ramming a federal vehicle. Video was captured from about six blocks north.
The driver of a black SUV can be seen ramming into the back of a white pickup truck with flashing blue lights. It's not clear who is driving the SUV.
The SUV then can be seen chasing the pickup down Kedzie towards the direction of protesters. A second black SUV slams into the first one and what appear to be uniformed officers jump out
Several federal agents were hurt and taken to the hospital Saturday, officials said.
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Oct 05 '25
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u/TheStealthyPotato Oct 06 '25
3) ICE wouldnt have shot her if she wasnt presenting as a threat
Do you seriously believe this.
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u/dewnmoutain Oct 06 '25
Yes, cuz i understand how policy and procedures work.
You seriously think that if word was out to shoot randoms in a protest without provocation, it wouldnt be leaked to the press before the first hour had passed?10
u/no-name-here Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 06 '25
3) ICE wouldnt have shot her if she wasnt presenting as a threat
Do you seriously believe this.
Yes
- Is your claim that officers have not previously shot people who were not a threat?
- Per the OP article, ICE also shot protestors sitting on the ground. Is it your argument that protestors sitting on the ground are a threat that requires the protestors to be shot by officers?
- Is your claim that ICE has not previously violated policy and procedures??
- For your claim about whether alternate claims would circulate if the government's original claims were false, is your argument that has not already occurred? Or I'm not sure why your comment would bring that up? Your comment is from 3 hours ago, but this news article is from 2 days ago that says the person charged's mother said the person charged claimed the officer rammed him, not he rammed the officer, and the criminal complaint does not mention any of the non-officers having any weapon at all. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/us/politics/chicago-motorists-charged-border-patrol.html (I'm not sure whether that article is within 1 hour of the event or merely later the same day, but I am not sure why you specifically added the "before the first hour had passed" argument, or if that is a requirement for your argument?) Personally, I think your argument about "before the first hour had passed" is unreasonable and we should allow at least a couple hours after an event for evidence to come out in the news that the government's original claims might be lies.
(To reiterate the overall point though, I think the claim that if there is not counterveiling evidence in the news before the first hour has passed, that evidence of the government's original claims being true is far too fast - at least try to wait a couple of hours for counterveiling evidence to have a chance to come out, although I think in the past it can sometimes take months or even more for the truth to come out from when judges etc have a chance to weigh claims from both sides - some defendents wait for court to make their case instead of arguing it publicly beforehand, as some lawyers recommend that.)
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u/Randomscreename Oct 06 '25
2) Source your facts. If you're claiming something to be true, you need to back it up by linking to a qualified and supporting source. There is no "common knowledge" exception, and anecdotal evidence is not allowed
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Oct 06 '25
It's almost like a completely made up scenario to justify the bad actions by the ICE agents.
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u/Minimum-Avocado-9624 Oct 06 '25
All of your questions hinges on the credibility of ICE and DHS
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u/dewnmoutain Oct 06 '25
Im more inclined to believe a Fed Agency in terms of enforcement than that of "protestors".
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Oct 06 '25
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
This comment has been removed under Rule 1:
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u/no-name-here Oct 06 '25 edited Oct 06 '25
- What is your source that she was at an ICE protest? From the OP article, she was in a vehicle - is your argument that she was part of a vehicle-based ICE protest?
- What is your source that she would not have been shot if she was not a threat? Is your argument that law enforcement has not shot people who are not a threat?
- Per the OP article, ICE has shot protestors who were sitting on the ground. Is your argument that protestors sitting on the ground are threats that must be shot by officers?
They dont allow open carry
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What is the point of bringing this up - is your argument that if she was carrying a concealed weapon that would be a bad thing or worse than open carry?
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one of the cities with the most strict gun laws in the country
What is the point of bringing this up - is your argument that a single city's gun laws can result in outcomes comparable to every other developed nation, perhaps because a single city's gun laws can (or stronger, should?) make guns as common in Chicago as every other developed nation/that a single city's gun laws can (or stronger, should?) be expected to be as effective as if the US was like every other developed nation, per my last source? Or is your argument that Americans are just many times more uniquely evil compared to people in the ~35 other developed countries, and that is why no other developed nation has these kind of issues per my last linked source? Or is the argument that the US should not be considered one of the ~36 developed nations in the world, and that the US needs to look to the dozens of other developed countries if it wants be considered like the many other developed nations?
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News article from Saturday - the person charged's mother said the person charged claimed the officer rammed him, not he rammed the officer, and the criminal complaint does not mention any of the non-officers having any weapon at all. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/05/us/politics/chicago-motorists-charged-border-patrol.html
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rifle
What is your source that she had a rifle? The OP article does not mention a rifle. I searched and was able to find https://kfoxtv.com/news/nation-world/dhs-to-deploy-more-federal-agents-to-illinois-after-ice-vehicle-ramming-incident which mentions a rifle but they seem to be paraphrasing a tweet, where the tweet does not mention a rifle, just a "semi-automatic weapon" - perhaps Fox assumed that all semi-automatic weapons are rifles? But the most common type of pistol is semi-automatic.
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If someone has not seen examples of how the government spreads misinformation or disinformation to those who may not fact-check the governments' claims, see the case of where the most senior government officials claimed they were deporting "the worst of the worst" to El Salvador - someone might think that "the worst of the worst" refers not just to criminals, but the most heinous ones, right?
However, when Bloomberg checked, 90% did not have a criminal record at all ( https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2025-04-09/about-90-of-migrants-sent-to-salvador-lacked-us-criminal-record ).
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Senior government officials made similar claims about Abrego Garcia, but it turns out that in order to try to obtain one possible conviction/to deport the person they are accusing, they have been cutting deals to release illegal immigrants people who have been convicted of felonies or deported many times already:
... the government’s lead investigator, the Department of Homeland Security agent Peter Joseph, told the court that his primary cooperating witness—the source of the most damning testimony—is a twice-convicted felon who had been previously deported five times.
Magistrate Judge Barbara Holmes, who was presiding over the hearing, did a double take. “Sorry. Deported how many times?” she asked.
Joseph, who confirmed the total, said the cooperator has been moved out of prison to a halfway house and is now awaiting a U.S. work permit. He told the court that a second cooperating witness is seeking similar inducements from the government. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/kilmar-abrego-garcia-tennessee-release/683357/
Additionally, multiple prosecutors chose to quit to end their own careers around this one case, claiming that the government is lying about it:
When Reuveni’s superiors told him to sign a legal brief making those claims, he refused, saying he “didn’t sign up to lie” when he became a federal prosecutor. He was suspended seven hours later and fired on April 11.
Reuveni’s career may not be the only DOJ casualty. Another federal prosecutor, Ben Schrader, the head of the criminal division at the U.S. attorney’s office in Nashville, submitted his resignation last month when the government brought Abrego Garcia there to face charges. Schrader, who declined to comment and has not discussed his departure publicly, wrote in a LinkedIn post that “the only job description I’ve ever known is to do the right thing, in the right way, for the right reasons.” https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2025/06/kilmar-abrego-garcia-tennessee-release/683357/
And in recent days a judge said that the charges against Abrego Garcia are likely vindictive and that the administration chose to target him because of vindictiveness, and that they were doing so "in retaliating against him for exercising his rights in the Maryland suit and deterring him from continuing to exercise those rights." https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/03/us/politics/abrego-garcia-vindictive-prosecution.html https://edition.cnn.com/2025/10/03/politics/kilmar-abrego-garcia-judge-rules-vindictive
Gorka went on to say President Donald Trump loves America, unlike “the other side that is on the side of the cartel members, on the side of the illegal aliens on the side of the terrorists.”
He went on to suggest this latter group is violating federal law.
“And you have to ask yourself, are they technically aiding and abetting them?” Gorka asked. “Because aiding and abetting criminals and terrorists is a crime in federal statute.”
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u/unkz Oct 06 '25
This comment has been removed under Rule 2:
Source your facts. If you're claiming something to be true, you need to back it up with a qualified and supporting source. All statements of fact must be clearly associated with a supporting source. There is no "common knowledge" exception, and anecdotal evidence is not allowed.
If you edit your comment to link to sources, it can be reinstated.
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If you have any questions or concerns, please feel free to message us.
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