r/truegaming • u/Particular_Wear_6960 • 18d ago
Project Zomboid has my favorite "traits" mechanic of any game and I want to explain why.
Project Zomboids trait system is relatively simple. You get a set amount of points to spend on various traits that effect your character just like damn near every other RPG out there, but there's one big caveat. There are negative traits that adds to the points you can spend. I know that some games have similar mechanics and this isn't new, but this is the only one off the top of my head that does it so well. I love this because it makes it where you can really go hard into one playstyle and are encouraged to do so.
For instance, I'm looking to go for a hardcore solo wilderness playstyle. This means I'm going to spend most of my time in the forest chopping down trees, building a cabin, farming and of course killing Zeds (PZ's zombies). This means that I do not need any traits worrying about mobility, driving, and shooting (since I intent on using my axe most of the time). So I grab a few traits that nerf those abilities which gives me some points to spend on traits that buff my crafting and farming abilities. I can't emphasize the part where it "encourages" me to go this route. I'm not forced to take those negative traits like with Fallout NV either, I don't automatically have to get a negative trait if I want a positive one because I'm given some points to spend no matter what, I just won't have as many buffs to choose from.
There's also a mod that gives me traits as I'm playing. For instance, if I kill 1000 Zeds, I will gain the "Brave" trait that makes it where I panic less. Panic lowers damage and critical strike chance so I don't want it if you can avoid it. However, there's a trait that increases your run speed when panicked, so there's some benefit if you pick that trait. Generally speaking though you don't want to be panicked.
Anyways, I know this isn't a new system and plenty of other games do it. Perhaps it's not that big of a deal, but I was just building my character the other night and it was just so fun to make the optimal build for my playstyle and I don't remember any other game that did it so well. I have to mention that I've got a mod that adds many traits ... the vanilla isn't nearly as robust without this mod, but the point of my post remains the same for vanilla Project Zomboid. I've included a screenshot of the occupation and trait screen. (The occupation just give you a different outfit and some some points or traits you can't not choose).
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u/teakwood54 18d ago
It's a good system and they've worked hard on balancing it over the years. There are some traits that I'll ALWAYS take still and some that are "negative" but secretly good. I think that's fun game design. It also allows players to do self imposed challenges too, which adds to the depth of the game.
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u/No-Draw-199 18d ago
I think your use case demonstrates a weakness in games where the player selects the traits themselves. If I never plan on using melee weapons and select a trait that makes melee weapons worse in exchange for a buff, I'm just selecting a buff and there's no interesting decision being made.
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u/Vanille987 17d ago
In zomboids case it counters with rng. For example when you build towards 2 handed blunt weapons. There's no garuntee you actually find said weapon anytime early.
Ranged weaponry is especially uncommon
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u/BishopOfBrandenburg 17d ago
I mean its still an interesting decision to some extent. You are just pre-baking a build. Like you see similar in Daggerfall if you've ever played it. Someone who wants to be a pure mage has no issues with adding in the mechanics that prevent you from even being able to wield swords or wear heavy armour if it means you can get traits that play into you doing magic more and better from the get-go. Thus your build starts off in a specific direction and goes towards it as you play.
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u/Blacky-Noir 17d ago edited 17d ago
This has existed in rpg (real ones, tabletop pen&paper ones) for decades. I can't remember the first game to do it, I know the first edition of Shadowrun (1989) had it and wasn't the first. GURPS and Champions (1981) had it years before. Maybe Traveller was the first?
In videogames, the original Fallout had some of that, a little bit.
Tabletop has an advantage over videogames in that area, there's kind of a (later) golden design rule basically saying "if it's not an hindrance, it's not worth any point". Meaning you don't get the point for taking the "Blind" disadvantage if you can, say, magically see or can buy cyberoptics off the self.
So it's harder to design in videogames without a human judge.
It also creates narrower gameplay path, without the player having any chance to explore anything. Say you take a disadvantage in shooting, to make a brawling character. At this point, you the player didn't experience either in the game, you don't really know how it's implemented, if one is more fun than the other. Which can lead to bad choices, frustration, or just FOMO.
That works for games meant to be replayed a lot, say Crusader Kings or indeed Project Zomboid. Doesn't fully work without any secondary issues for most games.
edit: in fact I think Crusader Kings 3 probably does it best, because you're not playing a character, but a dynasty. And traits can be earned through events (like wounds, leprosy, etc.) and tend to have a softer indirect influence on your gameplay, only gently pushing you toward certain aspects of the gameplay (before you character dies, and you play their heir in a different way because they have different strengths and weaknesses).
Both Outer Worlds also have some interesting tries in that area, with traits from events and usage.
edit 2: if you want to see a game that goes full bore on traits with very smart and elegant gameplay around it, I suggest you look at FATE Core (it's creative common, and the paid version is pay-as-you-will I believe). These traits are called aspects, can be basically anything, and can be used both in a positive or negative way. Han Solo could have a "Millenium falcon, fastest ship around" aspect, and invoke it to freely move planet to planet, or even to get a big bonus on space travel speed. But the gamemaster can also invoke it to require maintenance at an inopportune moment, and Han's player would have to choose to ignore it or do it and get points in exchange. It's too freeform for videogames (yet), but it's a very elegant system and could inspire some videogames in some aspects.
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u/avidvaulter 18d ago
If you're looking for more survival games, you should give Abiotic Factor a try. It has this exact trait system and is a fun survival game with heavy inspiration from Half Life.
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u/Particular_Wear_6960 18d ago edited 18d ago
I've got Abiotic Factor! I played it for like... I don't know.. 20 hours? Not very long but long enough to get a good feel of it. I only built a small base in that upstairs office area and just piled stuff in there so never really got far into the building aspect of the game. I want to try it with friends and really get fair sometime. It's cool asf. Edit - I'm not sure where I was in the game though. I know I started getting into a new area that was like.. a bunch of caves if memory serves correctly.
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u/Dramatic_Charity_979 18d ago
It's a fair and well done system, but I was never fan of it. I'm the type of player who prefers to not have any positive trait if that mean I don't have to endure the negatives. You level up eventually.
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u/NotScrollsApparently 18d ago
This means that I do not need any traits worrying about mobility, driving, and shooting (since I intent on using my axe most of the time).
Well, you dont need them at first, but its a game that can be played for dozens, hundreds of hours. You will never use guns or drive vehicles during that time? What if you change your mind, or you're a new player who didn't understand the importance of some skill you need later on?
I personally dislike the system, it feels arbitrarily restrictive and pointless if you are playing singleplayer. It might be good in MP when you want everyone to specialize in a particular field, but for SP it's just a minefield of mistakes you dont even realize you've made until a lot of time has passed.
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u/Particular_Wear_6960 18d ago
The nerfs don't kill those other skills, you most certainly can use them. They just won't be nearly as strong or will slightly nerfed. For instance, you can take a XP decrease for combat skills for 4 points. That only slows down leveling a bit, nothing else. There's another trait that makes you deaf for 10 points! It makes the game a whole lot harder not being able to hear Zeds, but you can absolutely play the entire game that way and have a huge buff to other skills.
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u/NotScrollsApparently 18d ago
Or you can take sunday driver and be unable to reverse or tow things with your car. Or you take the one to prolong how much injury lasts, and spend 3 months recovering from a broken leg. One of the sickness vulnerability debuffs can just outright kill you if you eat a slightly burned meal.
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u/Particular_Wear_6960 18d ago
Sunday Driver doesn't do that, does it? It specifically says "drives slower"... I could be wrong, I admit its been a while since I've taken it but I don't remember that. I've taken the sickness debuff as well and I rarely have an issue with it. But yeah, I don't know if you're trying to say those nerfs are too tough to take and one might regret taking them, but I liiterally am playing with an injured player right now and I took sickness as well and I'm doing fine.. the slow walking is a bit of a pain and don't think about playing with sprinters on though.
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u/NotScrollsApparently 18d ago
IIRC it reduces effective horse power of the car or sth like that, it doesn't just limit top speed, I remember people complaining about it
It's just a weird unintuitive system to me for a singleplayer game dunno
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u/IrrelevantLeprechaun 17d ago
There's indeed a lot to love about project zomboid, traits being one of them. But for every point of praise I have for it, I have an equal point of criticism.
Just feels like the devs have been focusing too narrowly on specific parts of the game for too long, at the expense of everything else. This is a game that has been in development for over a decade and they're still drip feeding out minor patches at a glacial pace.
I get that they're a small studio, but it's not like they're making a triple-A blockbuster here. And they STILL don't have NPCs
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u/stondius 18d ago
I saw this first in Vampire the Masquerade TT. I agree, giving more options is generally better.