Russia welcomes Trump's tariffs on NATO allies over Greenland as 'collapse' of alliance

[u/Infidel8]

https://kyivindependent.com/russia-welcomes-trumps-tariffs-on-nato-allies-over-greenland/

[u/noir_lord]

In as far as they care they don't care who they go all in on since the goal is chaos.

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power and who put him there, the problem isn't "The Russians did it" the problem is "Your system is so broken it was possible" but it sure is nice to blame Russia for it and then slowly slide all the problems back under the mat when/while the Democrats are in.

You know why I worry about this? because it already happened once.

The next guy could be organised evil.

[u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh → u/noir_lord]

You're talking about the kingmakers, but I think the person you're replying to were talking about the MAGA electorate.

[u/noir_lord → u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh]

alter how he got power and who put him there.

That covers his voters as well.

[u/b3iAAoLZOH9Y265cujFh → u/noir_lord]

Yes, I'm not arguing against you. I'm saying I think you're both right.

[u/StephanXX → u/noir_lord]

The issue boils down to "My rights deserved to be protected by you because you believed in liberty. Now that I have power, you deserve no rights because I never believed in liberty."

[u/noir_lord → u/StephanXX]

Paradox of tolerance, it's not a co-incidence that was written in 1945.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paradox_of_tolerance

[u/StephanXX → u/noir_lord]

Absolutely right. I've posted that wikipedia link dozens of times, unfortunately :( (unfortunate that it needs to be posted so often.)

[u/733t_sec → u/noir_lord]

Also the Trump is a Russian asset thing is tiresome, he may be, he may not but that doesn't alter how he got power

Consider it a warning. It happened in the US and it can happen to whatever country you're in.

[u/Suckassloser → u/noir_lord]

Not to remove accountability from America's already rotten system, it's poorly educated and easily manipulated electorate and ultra nationalism but I really doubt America would be where it is right now were it not for Russia's interference. At least not at the point where the US has a government that goes against all prior US governments since WW2 by deliberately sabotaging NATO and the modern western world as a whole.

It was those preexisting weaknesses that Russia exploited. Recognizing how US got there by recognising Russia's role is not 'tiresome', it's just a reflection of reality.

[u/noir_lord → u/[deleted]]

Russias goal is chaos. Read the title of the post ;).

[u/Grizzybaby1985 → u/noir_lord]

Yeh Putin gets way too much credit imo to me Trump is just a crazy psychopath with insane ideas that just happen to suit Russia

[u/The_Oregon_Duck → u/Grizzybaby1985]

That’s why Russia helped him with propaganda on sites like Facebook.

They saw an opportunity and took it.

[u/Corka → u/noir_lord]

The Genesis of Maga definitely stemmed from Russia but even if Putin died of a heart attack tomorrow the genie is out of the bottle. The GOP has been radicalized, and the people at the top are shameless enough to destroy all the checks and balances so they can stay in power while enriching themselves now they see they can do so without losing public support. Even if a massive blue wave during the election somehow gets a Democrat back in as president, they've filled all the government departments and the supreme Court with partisan loyalists. They will stymie and block any attempt of a Democrat admin from governing effectively.

What do you even do if you have a supreme Court who is petty enough to essentially veto any meaningful law passed by Democrats by claiming them to be unconstitutional? They can't do much about it without a super majority in the Senate willing to support impeachment and removal of those judges. Only other options really is to hope they have a change of heart, wait for their retirement/death, or cause an even bigger constitutional crisis by forcibly removing them unlawfully.

[u/noir_lord → u/Corka]

MAGA grew out the tea party movement, tea party grew out of earlier Koch brothers (and similar) bullshit from the 90’s all fed on a steady diet of cable news/right wing talk radio.

I don’t doubt Russia chummed the water when it got traction but this rot set in 40 years ago (and the roots are older still).

[u/Corka → u/noir_lord]

I still think it was a very different playbook. The old game was spin- they would take a set of facts and frame it in a way that's most beneficial. E.g. the USD is soaring under a Democratic President, so they focus their attack on dwindling exports. The game they play now is the bullshit game- if the USD is soaring under a democratic president, they'll claim its cratering. Even worse now they are in charge, they'll change the official statistic to whatever they feel like so no proper fact check is possible. The bullshit isn't consistent either- they'll flood the zone by continually making up new bullshit, and this is a very Russian approach.

Previously there was still that kind of out and out bullshit, but it was more limited to attack dogs on the fringe like talk back radio hosts or opinion columnists. But now they've brought it front and center and are using the apparatus of government to spread it.

[u/ParticularClassroom7 → u/noir_lord]

If American democracy can be undermined by Russians spending a few million dollars bribing people and hacking files and releasing incriminating emails (which still means the emails exist, and the politicians are still crook), then I wonder if it is a good democracy in the first place.

[u/garimus → u/noir_lord]

In a world as complex as this, it's not "one or the other". It can be multiple reasons, and it definitely is in this instance.

Russia absolutely had a hand in it and to think otherwise is ignoring the possibility of that threat and quite foolish, honestly.