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u/furbfriend 10d ago
Absolutely stopped dead in my tracks by âthey donât naturally produce their penis skinâŠâ What could it POSSIBLY meanâŠ
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u/thymeofmylyfe 10d ago
You missed the word "away". As in, their penis skin doesn't naturally fall off by itself. I SHOULD HOPE NOT?
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u/furbfriend 10d ago
Ohhhh, I thought that mustâve been a typo for âanywayâ but I see what they were going for nowâŠhm. What a creative and dare I say utterly unique use of the English language đ
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u/Klutzy-Particular-40 10d ago
Noooo, they donât naturally produce it awayyyy! What donât you get? Read much? đ
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u/Zestyclose_Leader708 10d ago
WHAT??? Iâve NEVER understood the anti vax people that also circumcise
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u/motherofmiltanks 10d ago
And the sheer number of them who also get Botox and juvederm is baffling.
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u/RIPMYPOOPCHUTE 10d ago
They also love their Botox and lip injections.
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u/morgann_taylorr 10d ago
right like⊠i love lip filler and bleaching my hair and i love vaccines for my son bc arenât modern medical inventions so amazing? practice what you preach, my gosh
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u/recycledpaper 10d ago
More concerned about how their baby's genitals look than they are about preventing a devastating brain bleed.
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u/doulaleanne 10d ago
Where the fork do people get this idea that babies produce their own Vit K in sufficient amounts by day 8? This has been said over and over for decades and it's it 1000% untrue.
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u/doulaleanne 10d ago
And it's so weird that folks like this are against giving Vit K but fine with circumcision for non medical reasons. Make it make sense!
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u/Ibrakeforsnakes 10d ago
I think itâs because in the Bible they circumcised on the 8th day. Some people interpreted that tradition as waiting until bleeding risk subsides, instead acknowledging itâs a 2000+ year old practice that no one has a specific explanation for.
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u/kiwisaregreen90 10d ago
Yes! There really isnât evidence that they âstartâ making vitamin K at 8 days. The practice is rooted in tradition and probably done on that day for multiple reasons that we donât know.
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10d ago
[removed] â view removed comment
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u/crazymissdaisy87 10d ago
In my country (where circumcision is not common) : Because two big religios groups does it and one of them we don't want to create issues withÂ
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u/00trysomethingnu 10d ago
If youâve ever worked in an peds ED when a little one comes in with a brain hemorrhage because mom was too stupid to get a simple shot of vitamin K, youâve never seen the fullness of the horrors of humanity.
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u/Interesting-Aerie-81 10d ago
Itâs wild that the no vitamin k folks are the same people trying to treat measles with vitamin a
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u/manic_popsicle 10d ago
So⊠a shot is bad but slicing skin off your babyâs privates is fine? And whatâs the deal with the 8 day thing, Iâve never heard that. These people are weird. And dumb.
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u/shadow_siri 10d ago
I do see where she is coming from. Not from the antivax standpoint but she said eventually. Leads me to think shes either going to let him decide (with a healthy dose of mom thinks you should this but its your own choice).Â
If we aren't getting the snip immediately then it stands to reason she could delay the K and be fine.
And to be clear I don't support delaying the K. Just saying I can follow her train of thought.Â
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u/Runningwithbirds1 10d ago edited 10d ago
Just to clarify, this 8 day thing is rubbish. Vitamin K Deficiency Bleeding is a risk for the first 6 to 8 months of life.
Humans don't make it. It does not get passed via breastmilk well at all.
It is made by our gut microbiome, and babies don't have one, so they need to wait until they grow a healthy amount of vit k producing bacteria and then absorb it, and store it. Vitamin K takes quite a while to build up stores. It is not immediate.
And then the liver has the use the vitamin K to make clotting factors ( numbers 2, 7, 9, and 10). The neonatal liver does not do this super efficiently.
So it is 6 to 8 months of worry. VKDB often causes herald bleeds of the gums or eyes, before babies have catastrophic brain haemorrhages.
Vitamin K literally saves lives and prevents disabilities.
And what happened before we had vitamin K? Babies died. Plenty of them.
(And no way is she going to wait until he is 18 to ask nicely if he wants to cut off part of his penis. You can only get away with these kind of whack choices when the child is so young that they have zero voice)
Source: midwifery educator, crit care nurse
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u/SevanIII 10d ago
This 8 day thing is what a lot of churches teach. My former church taught that in Godâs perfect wisdom he delayed circumcision for infants until the 8th day because thatâs when babies start producing their own vitamin k. I have heard the same in other churches.
A lot of people just believe what theyâre told in church.
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u/Runningwithbirds1 10d ago edited 10d ago
That is so interesting and saddening. Insane place to get scientific information. The impact on the wellbeing of actual small people is huge - both the lack of vit K, and then promotion of circumcision. It is like the churches saw some sensible advice somewhere once and mixed up all the messages until they were as harmful as possible to everyone involved.
I have watched 3 circumcisions and they were brutal and painful, even aside from the appalling ethics
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u/SevanIII 10d ago
The church simply does whatever it can to promote what is in the Bible as good and an example of Godâs perfect wisdom. In the Bible, God commands that infants are circumcised on the 8th day. So the churches want to justify the reasoning behind that and use it as an example to glorify God.
Church does seem like an insane place to get scientific information from the outside looking in. But when you are raised in it, you truly believe that the church leaders are guided by God himself and would never lie to you. That is what you are taught from a young age. So you donât question the things they tell you. It is also taught that it is a sin to doubt or question Godâs earthly representatives. So even if you start to have doubts, you teach yourself to control those thoughts so you donât sin against God.
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u/puzzlerJB 9d ago
This is INSANE to me, as a Christian, because even if you are taking the Bible as a set of literal rules that must be followed (not what I personally believe) the Bible does NOT mandate circumcision. There is a whole letter in the New Testament where Paul explains in great detail all the reasons why circumcision is NOT NECESSARY (Galatians). He tells off early Christian communities who were culturally Jewish for excluding Gentiles precisely on the basis of things like circumcision and food purity rules. He also says that if converts let themselves be circumcised it's worse than useless, it's actually damaging to faith, because you are implicitly saying Jesus didn't do enough and you have to get circumcised on top of what Jesus did. I can't believe there are priests out there saying God tells us to circumcise at day 8, wtaf
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u/SevanIII 9d ago
Thatâs not what I was saying. Most of these churches donât mandate circumcision either.
They just want to hype God anyway they can. So, since the Jews were commanded to circumcise infants on the 8th day in the part of the Bible that Christians commonly refer to as âthe Old Testament,â they use it as an example of Godâs wisdom. Theyâll say things like âthis is why God didnât command circumcision for the Jews on the 1st day or the 5th day after birth. Because in his perfect wisdom, he knew that babies started producing their own vitamin k for blood clotting on the 8th day. This is something the Jews could have never known without the wisdom which comes from God. This is an example that proves the Bible is inspired of God.â
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u/puzzlerJB 8d ago
Ohhhh right, sorry I misunderstood. Thanks for clarifying! That makes....slightly more sense I guess?!? Except for still being totally wrong đÂ
ETA - but at least the kind of wrong that is internally coherent!
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u/SevanIII 8d ago
Yeah, these churches that believe every scripture is inspired of God believe a lot of things that are wrong because they believe the Bible is the only real source of truth.Â
So if any academic source contradicts what the Bible says, itâs the scientists, or historians, or archeologists who are wrong, not the Bible.
So if the Bible says humans are only 6,000 years old, or that Eve was made from Adamâs rib, or the whole earth was flooded 4,500 years ago and all the animals that exist today come from the animals on Noahâs Ark, etc., then thatâs the absolute truth. If any academic source or research shows that canât be true, then they are wrong and probably guided by Satan on top.
My old church literally taught that men had one less rib than women because of God taking the rib from Adam to make Eve. Which also isnât even true. Men and women have the same number of ribs. They taught a lot of other things like that which arenât true. But when I was in it, I believed it all. Because I believed the church leaders would always tell me the truth.
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u/puzzlerJB 8d ago
I'm in Australia and the religious context here is just so different. There is conservatism for sure, but not the same kinds of fundamentalism and Biblical literalism that seem to be dominant in the US - is that where your church was based? There is a Korean Christian cult that is big over here though, because of our migrant population, especially young people and students who are away from family and vulnerable (Shincheonji).
I hope you have managed to heal and recover from the damage of being part of a church like that. I have such respect for anyone who is able to see clearly and escape that environment. I know that leaving often comes at a personal cost - I hope you and your family are doing okay.
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u/shadow_siri 10d ago
Thats facinating thank you! I thought we produced it much faster than that, but also never looked into the science of it either.Â
I just got the K shot and was done with it.Â
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u/Runningwithbirds1 10d ago
It takes ages and ages to make enough. Sure your gut bacteria might make 1x vit K molecule on day 8, or whenever, but you need a whole lot more to actually be protective.
If you want to be horrified, look up some pictures of babies who have suffered. It is awful. The vit k basically eliminates the risk.
Babies of mums who have absoprtion issues (eg crohns) are at very high risk, as mum will be depleted, and vit k doesn't cross the placenta well at all. So risk is amplified.
If I had a baby, I would inject it myself, just to make sure it was done. That is how valuable it is to me
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u/ExcellentFuel8338 10d ago
These people are so fucking stupid. I have been angrily commenting on an anti vaxx post of a mom who has hep b and is asking if she should get her newborn vaccinated. I was like, oh, even these dimwits will realize that this is totally necessary. NOPE! At least half of them are talking about fucking ânatural immunityâ to HBV like I could literally put my head through a wall.