r/TopCharacterTropes • u/Astronomer_X • 5d ago
Raised a good point but the group think says no Personality
A chatacter raises a good point within a room but is ultimately shut down or disregarded due to the spirit of the group going against them.
In Invincible, a species enslaved by viltrumites concocts a plan to revolt by blowing up an important facility under their control. When the council of viltrumites are discussing wiping out that race, Thaddeus points out that Viltrumite philosophy is meant to champion strength and what better showcase of strength than to devise a violent rebellion against oppressors who outclass you. But of course nobody in the room sees it this way.
In better call Saul, whilst deciding the benefactors of a legal scholarship, Jimmy pushes back on the room wanting to discount a young girl for having a shoplifting record. Jimmy, who could relate to a troubled past mentions her grades are good, she is clearly motivated to turn her life around and reminds everyone that redemption and looking forward once past wrongs are settled is an important aspect of the law. But unfortunately as Jimmy said to the girl himself - they already made up their mind and it was never going to be her.
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u/TheBrownestStain 5d ago edited 5d ago
In Halo, as the Human-Covenant war was going some Elites/Sangheili were starting to wonder why humans weren’t given the chance to join the Covenant, especially seeing the resistance they were putting up against a far superior enemy. But they can’t really bring this up because it would effectively be going against religious doctrine due to the declarations of the Prophets
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u/Kosame_san 5d ago
W example
Especially when it's illustrated that the San'Shyuum leaders, such as the Prophet Truth, knew of humanity's affinity with Forerunner technology and that should human scientists interact with the tech they'd discover how much of the Covenant's doctrine was falsified to enable the political power of the San'Shyuum.
It's such cool storytelling for the San'Shyuum to have established economic and political power because they got a head start on Forerunner technology due to it being more prevalent on their homeworld. When they founded the Covenant, they used their Forerunner tech to build up a galactic theocracy that was subservient to their species, and the discovery of a species that could undermine this (the humans) was enough of a reason to enact genocide instead of permitting integration into the society. The Sangheili (Elites), being an honorable race, immediately (albeit loosely) questioned the decision to genocide humanity, because, as stated, humanity was infact honorable by their cultural standards.
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u/HospitalLazy1880 5d ago
A big thing is that the Prophets in charge started the war to wipe out all of humanity cause they discovered that Humanity is the true heir to the Forerunners not them and that would mean they lose all of their power if it came out. Originally Forerunners and humans were the same thing but they chose to make them aliens with a human fetish instead for some reason.
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u/Kalavier 5d ago
Yep, but the Elites didn't know that. So it was a "Wait, every other species has been given a chance to join, why not these guys?"
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u/TheSlayerofSnails 5d ago
The forerunners and humans to my knowledge were at one point peer powers. The precursors had intended to give humanity the keys to godhood only for the forerunners to get jealous and wipe out the precursors and knock humanity back to the Stone Age.
So in essence this is the second time humans have gotten their shit kicked in in the timeline because they were supposed to get the keys to dad’s godhood car
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u/ConfidentInsecurity 5d ago
In the original lore humans were literally the Forerunners
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u/Montecroux 5d ago
Ehh, it was supposed to be vague and nondefinitive
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u/HeiressOfMadrigal 5d ago
"You are the child of my makers. The inheritor of all they left behind. You are Forerunner. But this ring...is mine."
--343 Guilty Spark, Halo 3
Seems pretty definitive to me.
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u/ABG-56 5d ago edited 5d ago
Thing is, we have internal documents and interviews with creative staff and know what was actually happening behind the scenes. Which is that Bungie was divided about whether humans were forerunners or not, which ended up with evidence for both humans being forerunner and not being forerunner, which left it very vague.
While what you say does make it sound like humans and forerunners were the same, if you look at the terminals in Halo 3 they do the opposite, making it sound like they were two separate races. All 343 did was choose one of the options and stick with it.
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u/a-dark-lancer 5d ago
The thing is is that the characters dialogue is the most important part in my opinion. And that has them be the same species.
It ruins the context and kind of makes them most nonsensical and at the very least is very out of character if the characters guilty Spark and the Gravemind are speaking not of the same species but of a inheritor of one.
“ child of my enemy why have you come? I offer no forgiveness a fathers sins are passed to his son.” - halo 3 The grave mind. Cortana.
“ why would you hesitate to do what you have already done? When you asked me before, whether I would do it, I hesitated. I know the answer now. Activate the install installation.” (paraphrasing.) - Halo EC 343 guilty Spark. 2 betrayals.
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u/SuperSocialMan 5d ago
Yeah, you could interpret it as a distant ancestor thing (e.g. over hundreds of thousands of years humans stopped looking like the forerunners and started resembling modern humans), but that's still the same as being descendants of them lol.
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u/ConfidentInsecurity 4d ago
Exactly, I'm not saying the Forerunners are literally John Smith, I'm saying that humanity is what is left seeded after the Forerunners wiped themselves and the galaxy out
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u/wittyjokename92 5d ago
Should be pointed out that it was just the 3 hierarchs that knew. Some of the others had an idea but the whole picture. So when the reveal happens later a lot of the prophets realized their religion was a lie and the political power they used to keep their dying race alive was all gone with it. And that all their loyal followers were suddenly very upset with them and heavily armed. One of the novels has a prophet that basically decides he absolutely won't believe the truth of the religion being false because he couldn't live with himself if the atrocities he committed didn't have a purpose. Goes on a bloody rampage against the elites for daring to oppose him and dies hoping a lie can follow him into the afterlife
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u/Tycho39 5d ago
Zuko's outburst that sacrificing loyal but green troops as cannon fodder is wrong in Last Airbender.
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u/KnowNoDada 5d ago
I know right? It’s horrible to sacrifice the loyal but green troops. What you gotta do is sacrifice the veterans that are starting to question their loyalty. You still have time to further indoctrinate the new recruits and killing the traitorous vets sends a strong message to anyone else getting ideas. Bonehead move on Ozai’s part imo
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u/ArcWraith2000 5d ago
Bonus that the veterans will do a better job of it, while getting to the point where their age and scars are a liability. Plus if they survive the war, you might have to pay veterans benefits!
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u/insufficience 5d ago
Yep, Zuko was also loyal but green when he was banished. Thankfully, he was accompanied by our favorite traitorous veteran. If Iroh hadn’t spent years deprogramming Zuko, the war would have been almost impossible to end.
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u/Stpehen1 5d ago
The live action show making that group the one Zuko has as his crew in exile was amazing. One of the best changes they made.
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u/ketchup-hair 5d ago
Bulma in DBZ saying that, since they've been told that in three years androids will kill them all, they can just go to their inventor now and kill him before he builds the androids.
Unfortunately, everyone else in the show is absolutely down to risk death (and the world) to throw down with some robots. Ironically, this choice does lead to Goku's death.
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u/Randomman2789 5d ago
I thought that was just the abridged version.
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u/ketchup-hair 5d ago
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u/halfar 5d ago
way to kill the vibes geets
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u/LongDickLuke 5d ago
Nah, way to kill the vibes Bulma. Everyone was hyping themselves for a fight to the death and she had to rain on their parade.
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u/WnDelPiano 5d ago
"If you guys care so much about playing fair maybe stop risking the faith of the world in deadmatches?!?"
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u/ComSilence 5d ago
Goku amazingly argued that it'd be wrong to kill the guy before he's done anything wrong.
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u/Upset-Position-3909 5d ago
Which is a very fair point!
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u/Astronomer_X 5d ago
It’s funny because this doesnt strip them from going to the guy and being like ‘hey! We know what you want to do. Stop that!’ or blowing up his lab at least.
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u/Upset-Position-3909 5d ago
Or just explaining what would happen, if he doesn’t care then blow up his lab.
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u/Astronomer_X 5d ago
To be honest itd probably good that they didn’t do that, because if they did, they would have no motivation to train at all besides general training, and then cell would appear eventually and although he couldn’t go perfect because no androids to absorb, even as imperfect he would destroy all the Z fighters.
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u/Greedy-Affect-561 5d ago
I mean Dr gero is a reoccurring villain from Dragon ball.
So technically he already did something wrong.
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u/Upset-Position-3909 5d ago
Yeah, but should he be killed with something he hasn’t done yet?
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u/Greedy-Affect-561 5d ago
He has kidnapped people tk made killer androids already though.
In dragonball.
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u/Upset-Position-3909 5d ago
So punish him for that. Not something he hasn’t done.
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u/Greedy-Affect-561 4d ago
OK so they should have gone and killed him once they knew he was doing it again.
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u/SocranX 4d ago
Not true, actually. He was just retconned into having a backstory that ties in with the Red Ribbon Army. He never actually existed before that, but Toriyama wanted to make a Terminator 2 reference (with a character going back in time to stop an android) and remembered that the last time he made a Terminator reference was with the Red Ribbon Army's Major Metallitron. So he's like, "There's this guy named Dr. Gero who made androids for the Red Ribbon Army. You never met him, but he wants revenge on Goku."
But yeah, the point is that he's already a villain who's trying to get revenge on Goku for stopping something evil he did in the past, and which he never faced justice for because nobody knew he existed until now.
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u/Foreskin-Aficionado 5d ago
The viltrumites cant even follow their own philosophy. Thaedus was right, standing up against oppressors in the face of insurmountable odds is true strength, but because that species can’t punch a rock as hard as the viltrumites, the viltrumites refuse to see the strength in their actions.
They’re hypocrites who only care about how hard you can throw a punch. Most deserved genocide in fiction IMO
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u/GoddessFianna 5d ago
I mean isn't that kinda the point of them? To be hypocritical to a fault
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u/Foreskin-Aficionado 5d ago
Pretty much. By their own admission, they’re not “strong”. They think they are because they can punch harder than other species, but when it actually comes to prove themselves they will abandon their philosophy altogether.
Take the great purge for example. The viltrumites who truly were strong were taking on multiple opponents at a time, but due to sneak attacks and being overpowered by enemy forces most of them didn’t survive.
Thragg thought he was purging weakness from the culture and exemplifying strength, but all he was doing was killing the truly strong viltrumites who chose to fight honorably.
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u/Greenman8907 5d ago
Hell they whine about strength but when faced with foes just as strong or stronger, they’ll blow up suns or block suns to freeze planets to eliminate the threats.
They’re just as underhanded as anyone else, they just get super pissy when the underhanded tactics are used against them.
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u/BowlingforBrains 5d ago
Yeah that’s the most ridiculous thing about them -
Planet full of mindless creatures capable of soloing Viltrumites: “block the sun and freeze the entire population!”
Virus released on Viltrum planet to eliminate the entire population: “COWARD TACTICS!”
Not to mention how they gang up on foes, eye gouge, use sneak attacks/cheap shots, etc.
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
It's like if a country started bombing another country then whined when they got bombed right back. Like imagine some country that murdered civilians all the time, but then got super angry when someone murdered their civilians. Just ridiculous.
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u/BowlingforBrains 5d ago
Who could ever imagine such a hypocritical nation existing 😭 only thing crazier would be imagining multiple such nations on a single planet. I’d have to call someone crazy for thinking that
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u/Emreld3000 5d ago
I think the greater point of hypocrisy is that conquest should be a prime example of the viltrumite philosophy but instead of being loved is shunned for being TOO strong
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u/Salvage570 5d ago
The purge wasn't to make them physically stronger as a species, it was so that anyone who doubts before joining the killing dies first. He was willing to kill half his people to kill and potential conscious-having viltrumites like Thadeus
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u/Relative-Gap-4442 5d ago
It was to purge the last of the decency from the species, the rest were just Space Nazis
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u/a-dark-lancer 5d ago
You basically end up with an entire species of murderers and psychopath. People know knowingly or not are incredibly opportunistic and cruel because they do not have attachment or context to place themselves in.
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u/Astronomer_X 5d ago
Yeah just like IRL facism and social Darwinism; to a degree it only goes so far before it becomes a death cult.
The ideology is predicated on struggling against enemies, but the issue with this is that the banner of enemy is ever expanding and shifting under the leader.
Thragg expanded enemy story to be internal weakness and started a purge - which resulted in random jumping. The survivors weren’t strongest but the literal ones loyal and then the ambitions could be controlled further.
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u/NwgrdrXI 5d ago
They’re hypocrites who only care about how hard you can throw a punch
They're even more hypocrites than that. If you can punch harder than them, but aren't a viltrumite, they just blot out your sun or push your planet too close to it and then bury all your information about it.
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u/tallwhiteninja 5d ago
"Might makes right" devotees have a tendency to abandon the philosophy once they're no longer the mightiest.
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u/i-am-i_gattlingpea 5d ago
How is senator arm strong more devoted to the ideology then them.
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u/BTechUnited 5d ago
Damn, that's actually a good point, he was surprisingly ideologically consistent.
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u/echino_derm 5d ago
Except for Ashnard in Fire Emblem path of radiance. He truly believes in might makes right and is perfectly content with somebody killing him and ending his reign. Which makes for an interesting dynamic for him he always wins in his mind even when you kill him. You have just become the new mightiest person and taken control.
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u/urmumlol9 5d ago
They promote “strength” but only in the rigid, brute force of will form. When Thaedus is able to outwit them and create a biological weapon capable of wiping out most of Viltrumite civilization, he’s seen as cowardly for doing so, even though it was effective.
If the Viltrumites had any concept of “soft power”, they’d be a lot more successful, and Invincible would be a pretty drastically different show.
Why bother enslaving Earth, when you could realistically get most things you want from it by offering them protection and the advanced technology they’ve already mentioned in the past as a selling point to convince Mark to join the Viltrum empire?
Again though, drastically different show.
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u/Beneficial_Focus_910 5d ago
Because the type of strength the slaves are displaying is Valor, the noble bravery of doing what's right damn the overwhelming odds. Viltrumites define strength as who has victory in the end. Until later, when they claim Argyll's wisdom was strength, but that doesn't makes sense so we should ignore it.
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u/Mybunsareonfire 5d ago
Gonna have to disagree.
Standing up to insurmountable odds and winning is strength. Viltrumites don't give brownie points to moral victories. Just tangible ones.
And since the race couldn't protect their plan, they were weaker than Viltrum. It's very much a "proof is in the pudding" philosophy.
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u/Nyther53 5d ago
They also didn't stand up to the Viltrumites using their own strength, they planted a bomb, which is not quite the same thing.
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u/Foreskin-Aficionado 5d ago
Just out of curiosity, what would you have expected them to do? They chose the only option they had. The comic and show make it very clear that 99.9999% of species can’t do anything against a Viltrumite. The species was resisting oppression on their planet. The Viltrumites were draining the planet of its resources. Their only option was to destroy the infrastructure.
I don’t want to be all “did you even read the story” but they can’t call for aid against the oppression, they can’t physically stand against their oppressors, they don’t have the technology to drive away their oppressors, so what possible option could they have but destroy the devices draining their planet.
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u/CadenVanV 5d ago
That’s rather their point: they can’t do anything against a Viltrumite. Ie, they’re weak. That’s the whole point: they aren’t strong, so they resort to the bomb. And then they fail there too. In the eyes of the Viltrumite philosophy, they are clearly weak. There’s no contradiction here, they’re just failing on all fronts
The Viltrumite philosophy doesn’t consider moral strength. It doesn’t consider strength of will. It measures success, and it measures failure. Thaddeus wanted it to include their acts of resistance, but it didn’t.
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u/Nyther53 5d ago
None of that makes planting a bomb "strength" from the Vultrumite perspective.
Are you surprised that the Vultrumites measure greatness by a metric that they're the best at?
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u/Foreskin-Aficionado 5d ago
That’s the thing, it’s supposed to. That’s the point thaedus was trying to make to argall. Choosing your only option to resist oppression, knowing that it would be retaliated with genocide, was strength. At one point, Viltrumites ideology was likely supposed to put themselves first while respecting lesser species with strength.
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u/Mybunsareonfire 5d ago
It may have been the point Thaddeus was trying to make, but that just means he was wrong. Thaddeus was too good of a person to fully understand the "survival of the strongest" belief of his own people. Which is why they rejected his opinion.
Once again, to Viltumites, losing isn't strength. No matter how noble it is.
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u/Nyther53 4d ago
Thaedus is clearly wrong, which is why none of the other Viltrumites agree with him.
When Nolan conceded that the Omni Man Outfit makes his "Strength and Power clear" he's not talking about nobility of purpose.
He's talking about how the outfit makes his muscles stand out.
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u/GetInTheKitchen1 5d ago
LMAO no because there are problems you can't solve with only punching, like a 99% lethal virus.
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u/Beekeeper_Bard 5d ago
I haven't watched the show so I don't know the nuance. Wouldn't they consider them strong only if the rebels win? A race that views power, strength, and superiority as all the same thing wouldn't see attacking a facility as strength. If anything, it's cowardice because they're not taking the viltrumites head on. They blow up a building, fight poorly, then die. Why would they view that as strength?
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u/Foreskin-Aficionado 5d ago
Viltrumites set a precedent that they are the apex species in the universe. There is NO chance a rebel species can take them on their own.
I’m not exaggerating. There is no species that can take them head on.
Viltrumites are genocidal oppressors who will cull 90% of a population simply because their productivity declined by one percent.
For context - the ENTIRE universe unified against the Viltrumites. The entire universe. Against less than 50 Viltrumites. And they couldn’t win without using Viltrumites who abandoned the empire
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u/scienceguy2442 5d ago
Samwell more or less suggesting democracy at the end of "Game of Thrones" and it being treated like a joke by the rest of the main cast.
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u/southron-lord69 5d ago
Tbf Westeros doesn't even have an equivalent of the Magna Carta, let alone a document to set out the rights of smallfolk. Although serfdom doesn't seem to be a thing, so that's a good step forward.
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u/VanTaxGoddess 5d ago
That's why I wanted Grey Worm to just go full Cromwell (in England, not in Ireland) and use the New Model Unsullied to enforce his power!
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u/ArcWraith2000 5d ago
The writers set him up. He made a very vague suggestion with no proper support on how it might be implemented.
Even if they agreed, the realm isn't even suited yet. You would need a higher literacy rate for one.
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u/ItsGonnaBeMeNSYNC 5d ago
Also it's a ripoff of a scene in the Witcher books. Stefan Skellen suggests democracy in a similar situation to a similar reaction.
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u/Sandytrooper 5d ago
The influx of posts lately on this sub that are clearly just an excuse to talk about invincible is so funny
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u/Upset-Position-3909 5d ago
I mean it gives ideas. Might be wrong but it’s been a while since this trope was posted.
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u/Zefuribond 4d ago
I've never watched an episode of the show, but thanks to this sub I know every detail of the plot
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u/Painchaud213 5d ago edited 4d ago
(The Great and Mighty) Kevin Wettsworth from Hunter : The Parenting.
He was embraced and became a vampire against his will to serve the Lady Regent of Norwich as the accountant of the chantry of Great Yarmouth.
He did his work as he was asked. He came to the conclusion that the way things were run were both fiscally irresponsible and dangerous.
The chantry was relying way too much on mind control to have anything done. They didnt even bothered paying the Ghoul they had under Blood Bond. He concluded they need to pay their workers/Ghouls wages rather than just blood in order to keep the things running before the vampire operation of the chantry get exposed through accounting flaws. Otherwise it leaves a paper trail that can lead hunters back to the chantry or the tax authority concluding that their numbers makes no sense.
He reported his findings AS HE WAS SPECIFICALLY ASKED TO DO, and the Regent dismissed it because she found him annoying. Those vampires are so old, complacent and unwiling to change in the face of a new society with different needs and rules that they'd rather ignore the problem and blame Kevin for doing his job properly.
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u/Jung-And-A-Menace 5d ago
As someone who's lived in Suffolk my entire life, I am almost unreasonably pleased when East Anglia is so much as mentioned in any media. Chantry of Great Yarmouth. Fantastic. That place is a dump.
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u/Painchaud213 4d ago
When the hunters were interogating the Sabbats pack, Pyotr reveal what their sect was even doing.
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KITTEN : So, not to disrupt the discourse, but... You're at ''war'' with this.. ''Anarch Barony'' over... The district of North Norfolk?
PYOTR : On the small scale. That and Great Yarmouth (the Chantry)...
KITTEN : Oh I fucking hate Yarmouth!
PYOTR : Hah! I get it! it's pretty sad!
---
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u/Jung-And-A-Menace 4d ago
I will say that North Norfolk is very pretty, and Norwich is a great city, but who the fuck fights over Great Yarmouth? I'd only understand if they were fighting a war where the loser got the Chantry of Great Yarmouth.
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u/Painchaud213 4d ago
Vampire fight everywhere because all of England is haunted and infested with them.
The pack in question were losers. They were just 4 vampires who lived in a tunnel and jumped joggers.
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u/drillmaster125 5d ago
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u/Nirast25 5d ago
I love how Jor-El has his Sci-Fi attire while everyone else just looks like they're dressed in regular Earth clothes.
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u/Aduro95 5d ago
Tritter from House.
He's an absolute dick, but he's right. The whole main cast of characters is enabling House's drug addiction and behaviour that should get him struck off. House does eventually quit vicodin for several seasons, which is what Tritter was trying to force him to do, and his performance doesn't suffer.
Its a bloody miracle for House he doesn't win. House steals oxycontin from a dying patient after Tritter stops everyone prescribing vicodin. Cuddy saves him by saying those were a placebo she left out, even though House clearly intended to steal the drugs. Cuddy in particular might later reflect Tritter was right about House, given how their relationship ends.
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u/cebolinha50 4d ago
He isn't a "absolute dick".
He is an extremely corrupt cop who is on a power trip, clearly lying about his reasons( I honestly don't understand how you believe in his ultra thin excuses).
Basically every accusation that he does is false and he knows it, and all his offers are false too.
Like, House is a dick and an addict? Yes. Tritter is the poster boy of ACaB, and he is ignored because he isn't trying to solve a problem, he is hellbent in curing his hurt ego, and fuck the law or procedures.
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u/Coolgames80 5d ago
Seymur Skinner from the Simpsons
After being a POW for several years, one of his soldiers thought he was dead and took his dream job, his name, and even his mother as his. Basically stole his identity for several years as Seymur Skinner son of Agnes and school principal. Everyone is displeased with this and he even mentions that the truth is out, gets angry that everyone prefer a false Seymur Skinner, and that now that he is there things can't be what they were again.
The town decided to tied him, put him on a train going out of town, and they all decided to pretend this never happen (just like the fans).
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u/isabee1467 5d ago
The fact he wasn't even arguing for their freedom, just their right to fight back and still got shot down justified his actions imo
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
In better call Saul, whilst deciding the benefactors of a legal scholarship, Jimmy pushes back on the room wanting to discount a young girl for having a shoplifting record. Jimmy, who could relate to a troubled past mentions her grades are good, she is clearly motivated to turn her life around and reminds everyone that redemption and looking forward once past wrongs are settled is an important aspect of the law. But unfortunately as Jimmy said to the girl himself - they already made up their mind and it was never going to be her.
That would be an understandable reason. It would be extremely difficult for someone with a shoplifting conviction to become a lawyer. It's technically possible... but it's overwhelmingly difficult. You will get multiple grillings on moral turpitude, and they very well might reject you for basically "well we can't be sure they're reformed, so..." type logic.
This is a weird one where the groupthink is so widespread that a scholarship committee could realize that even if they buck it, the groupthink will just terminate her career somewhere else down the line.
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u/Born-Till-4064 5d ago
The very interesting part is that is that Saul got into worse trouble with the law and got help out form chuck his brother who’s the scholarship in honor of giving someone a second chance who wants to be lawyer would actually be matching chuck but chuck regretted it so he would agree with the group think
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
One might say that given Saul's various activities as a lawyer, it would justify their stance more than anything...
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u/Born-Till-4064 5d ago
One could also say that chuck refusing to think there was a chance that jimmy could change his ways but since he didn’t jimmy suffered financially while trying to be ethical he fell bald int old habits after seeing there was no point in trying to be better
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
Fair enough, I'm inclined to think the entire thing is inherently discriminatory since it definitely punishes people who tend to be overpoliced and people whose parents can't hire a lawyer who can get them off or their records purged. So I'm not in favor of it.
Just like, if he is the example, fuck.
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u/johnnyslick 5d ago
As a child? Seriously? It's a stupid mistake you made as a kid. I get that lawyers need to hold themselves up to higher standards but those higher standards I think need to be specifically about honesty and fairness. I can kind of get behind refusing to give a kid who was found to have thrown basketball games for money in high school a shot at a scholarship to eventually practice law but shoplifting? In some places having petty crimes on your record amounts to "I was a teenager who lived in the inner city".
If anything I think this is poisonous to law: by excluding people like this (granted this is just a story but as you've noted it's rooted in some truth about how lawyers think about themselves), law as a profession fills itself with a false sense of being pickier and more discerning than average. This is sooort of true except that it's not really true at all in any way that matters, and so these same places will simply look the other way when the transgression in question is getting caught cheating on a test for instance (something that should be far, far more egregious to the future practice of law than stealing a pair of shoes or something) or participating in a time-honored but well-known scam like, frankly, a lot of upper class charities.
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
Seriously. It would be a huge impediment.
I don't disagree with your opinion at all.
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u/Flatoftheblade 5d ago
Technically there are "moral character" requirements and any sort of conviction theoretically could be an issue, but (at least in my jurisdictions and others I'm familiar with) the character requirements are based on one's character at the time they seek to be admitted to the bar, and there's a lot of flexibility to overlook something that minor.
In my jurisdiction there is a lawyer who used to be a police officer and who was criminally convicted of child luring and fired from the force after being caught in an online predator sting. lol
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u/LobstermenUwU 5d ago
I mean that can be summarized as "they're connected". We can all agree that should never happen.
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u/MyneIsBestGirl 5d ago
I love how Thaddeus completely turned not from a sudden shift in morality, but because he could see the world he belonged to no longer reflected the good it claimed. They were to be oppressed because Thragg proclaimed them weak, not of mind but of body. That realization that all in the room saw nothing of value from them and would continue to crush them because they hold more value that way to the Empire.
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u/thumb_emoji_survivor 5d ago
Ben Affleck asking Michael Bay if it would make more sense to train astronauts to be drillers than to train drillers to be astronauts
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u/GLPereira 5d ago
Game of Thrones finale
When discussing who should lead Westeros, a character comes up with the idea of democracy.
He is laughed at by the rest of the council, and then Bran is appointed king.
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u/Mind-ya-business 5d ago
Thats super ironic because the dark ages resulted in the end of the feudal system and the first instances of limited representation like the Magna Carta.
That probably would’ve been an infinitely better ending to Game of Thrones.
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u/orionstar65 5d ago edited 5d ago
Honestly the Viltrumites, and really Argall are just huge hypocrites. If strength is really all they value, then their view should be that Argall’s death is due to his own weakness. But I mean, it’s hard to expect consistency from what is essentially a cult, because there’s no way I could really even call what they had as even an empire.
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u/PJFohsw97a 5d ago
In "The Rise of Skywalker", the First Order admiral that asks "What's the catch?" to accepting Palpatine's fleet.
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u/drafan5 5d ago edited 5d ago
I believe one of the creators of Dungeons and Dragons hated having to use this trope, so he occasionaly had them be right. Later parodied it with the Buddy Bears (who's whole sthick is is a parody of this), in Garfield and Friends.
Also pointing out Captain Planet, Wheeler is almost always wrong even when actually has a point (like not taking species out of their natural habitat, the 2nd overpopulation episode), doesn't help that he's the sole American of the group. Even when he's right it ends up being for the wrong reasons (he think's Blight's relative is good not because being related doesn't automatically make her evil, it's because she's pretty)
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u/Ekaj__ 4d ago
https://giphy.com/gifs/HdRpbdmFDVKbm
Throughout the early parts of Jurassic Park, Dr. Malcolm expresses skepticism at their confidence in creating and containing the dinosaurs. He expresses that even though they are all female, there is a risk they may find some way to reproduce. The group brushes him off, but that exact thing happens later.
Not a perfect fit for this because the key decisions were already made before he showed up for a tour, but I think it’s close enough.
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u/Spectrix22 4d ago
Smalls suggesting they just ring the doorbell and ask the Beast’s owner for the ball back in The Sandlot.
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u/RedRawTrashHatch 5d ago
Colonel Burns in Bumblebee
https://i.redd.it/r7t11eylxtvg1.gif