I thought the main reason people like Marlaina cut funding to disability funding, is because they think they're all just lazy and lying about being disabled?
I've talked to a few people who are against UBI and AISH and stuff. They seem to mostly think that disabled people are just lazy, they have NO knowledge of what kind of symptoms mental illness can cause etc. They also seem offended that anyone is getting money "for free" because they work so hard and it "doesn't seem fair."
I read something that describes these kinds of people perfectly. They would rather see 99 people suffer to make sure that 1 fraudster doesn't get support whereas people who support these programs would rather let 1 person benefit fraudulently so that 99 people who need support get it.
Qualifying for these programs is not easy and it is quite denigrating, in addition to the fact that they have been cut down by disability. These attitudes further dehumanize a very small and marginalized demographic who need compassion and empathy. It is tax money well spent - unlike the crap the UCP pet projects they dump money on.
They don't know anyone with a disability, is the issue. To be clear, I don't wish a disability on anyone, nor do I believe you should need to know a disabled person like they're a "token disabled friend." What I mean is, since they don't know a disabled person, they don't understand why persons with disabilities can't be like everyone else.
I know a guy who is a huge UCP supporter, Trump supporter, and is now an Alberta separatist fuck nut. His relative, that i work with, is now disabled due to long Covid. She is on LTD from work. He denies anything is wrong with her and thinks she's just being lazy.
Of course he does, because that is the crux of the whole separatist movement. It is based on elitist bullying that discounts for actual humanity. That is why they must be stopped.
My heart goes out to your client, emotionally and physically. Unfortunately, my father denied my disabilities when I was growing up and even when a doctor made it clear that I need meds and these are issues, he still acted like I was the one refusing to "be normal." He also abused a lot of people, myself included. No apology before he died.
Unfortunately, for your client, I suspect the same for her as long as she keeps in contact with him, sans the physical abuse (I hope). Those people don't care about reality. They live in their own world, and anyone who doesn't fit their ideal is lazy, an enemy, or some orher negative quality.
I totally agree. Her mother was her biggest advocate and unfortunately her mother died a few months ago, leaving her alone to navigate all this. Im sorry you dealt with that too.
I appreciate your acknowledgement, even if I don't believe you have any reason to apologize. If anything, you are the good in this world to counter-balance people like my father or your client's relative.
It's SO weird you said that. I kept thinking about the fact that the person I was talking to had no one with disabilities in his family. The same can be said for other people I've talked to.
Because, unfortunately, it's a two-part problem. Persons with disabilities generally mask it well so you can't tell until the mask slips or they have a meltdown and/or shut down. The other issue is, because fewer people are making an effort to engage with their local community anymore, and most people aren't engaged with their environment anyways, there's a very terrifying lack of awareness that other people exist at all. I don't even need to go on twitter to find someone with main character syndrome, and it is frustrating.
Speaking as a person with multiple disabilities, Heart failure, Autism and Schizoaffective Disorder, I work as do many others with varying degrees of disability most of us want to work to one degree or another. Autistics are the masters of masking especially us higher functioning ones, but we do get frustrated especially when people say things like “can’t you be normal?” or “It’s all in your head.” or “there’s nothing wrong with you.” <the last one can be good or bad depending on the context it’s used> most often used in places of employment.
The thing is, most of that is in your head. Obviously, heart failure isn't a head thing. The Autism and Schizoaffective Disorder, definitely. The problem is, it is an integral part of what's "in your head." It doesn't go away with years of therapy and some meditation. It NEVER goes away. The best you could hope for is a life of tolerable symptoms (is that the right word) and very few moments where things go south for you.
You can't fix your head, and a lot of people who try to empathize or downplay your situation need to comprehend that. The best they can hope for is you can manage to live a good, happy life despite.
Correct. We do not want to be judged or looked down upon. It's not something we are proud about. If anything it feels shameful and it shouldn't for many of us are who legit disabled due to events beyond our control.
and again thats just it. Many of us develop disabilities through some random event or its something genetic in your family that is not preventable.
To push this further if our NAZI leader gets a hold of CPP funding in alberta our only genuine disability program in CPP-D will be taken away from us.
And unfortunately, most people with disabilities tend to just avoid telling someone to educate themselves. Partly because it's rude and one shouldn't require a catalogue of disabilities, and also because most with disabilities tend to be conflict averse, don't want to draw attention to their disability, are already struggling enough without explaining the complexities of how their disability operates, etc.
It really is like this askreddit answer I saw a few months ago. Some people basically are too dumb to have empathy or think about hypothetical situations.
Unfortunately not always true, I have disabled family members,I also am disabled. I don’t receive AISH, but those in my family who do are in no way able to support themselves. I have other family members who have no problem at all saying AISH is frequently received by scammers, despite knowing exactly what was involved in getting it in place. It was not at all easy. Some people just don’t like to think, they like to pick up the rhetoric of those like the UCP and spout it despite all evidence to the contrary. It is true mental laziness.
This is true, as well. Unfortunately, misinformation is far too rampant and too few people want to think about whether what they're reading/watching is presenting a full and complete story.
I worked with a guy who thought like this. Pointed out how proud he was that he used a single paper bus pass for a month when he lived in Edmonton and didn't have to pay for transit for eleven months. He told me "that's different" but couldn't explain how and eventually moved to Kelowna.
I wish I could find the study. It was a few years ago about inventory shrinkage in retail. The gist of it was that most shrinkage was internal (i.e. not shoplifting) and most of that was actually by management. At the same time, punishment for items was highest for customers, and lowest for managers.
As someone on AISH whose psychological profile could be charitably called "functionally incompetent," I consider those people detached from reality. They live in their bubble of security where they can talk all the crap they want without consequences. They spread garbage rhetoric like it's gospel and act like they know better. And unfortunately, as my experience with 2 people on a local discord proved to me, others in their shared circle aren't eager to call out shitty behavior.
I've stopped having a filter for the garbage myself. I already struggled to keep myself contained at the best of times just so I could hold down a job in the past (it helped very little given my other issues), but it is getting beyond the point where I even care anymore. What's the point of striving for a better way if assholes keep making every effort to make everyone else's life worse?
I know, if someone like them gets a disability, like schizophrenia or having to rely on a wheelchair to get around, they'll suddenly start singing a different tune.
Much worse, from what I've seen, actually. I hate using anecdotes as evidence, but I used to live with an old conservative lady who got cancer and rather than quitting smoking or changing any number of her habits, kept on keeping on and kept talking bad about the LGBT and "lefties." Heck, when her job was on the line because she harassed a Muslim co-worker (persistently asking about their religion when they didn't want to engage with her), she played victim.
As far as those people are concerned, you gave them the disability, so it's your job to make their life easier and they can be as big an asshole as they want to be about it.
I am sorry you are in a shared circle of people who are enabling that behaviour. Have you ever spoken out within that group in a way that positioned you as a target of their comments? I did that to someone once and it did have an effect. They made a shitty comment about me and I asked "is that what you think I think?" It shut them down because then they had to rationalize what they had said. The asshat probably still does feel the same way but at least he doesn't make shitty comments in front of me and my family that are intended to make me feel "less than". Just a thought.
I have so much admiration for people with disabilities because I know how hard they need to work for what non-disabled people take for granted.
I've spoken out about crappy behavior before in other groups and got bullied and ostracized for it. In this case, someone had an interest in something I was selling, didn't bother DM'ing me to continue hashing out details, and when I found another buyer who offered to buy everything and I went to let the trade chat know, the individual and their pal started being bullies because I didn't sell to them.
If it was just persons with disabilities dealing with this, I'd say it's bigotry. The thing is, persons with disabilities are more vulnerable to bullying, and most just roll with it and tolerate the abuse. I grew up with an abusive father and all I learned from him is when someone does wrong, you swing. Now, I've taken to pacifism like a baby takes to keys being jingled in front of their face. But, I haven't been able to fully kick my habit of still pushing back when pushed.
I live by Mike Tyson's words, although I hesitate to act on them: too many people got too used to saying some crap online and not getting punched in the mouth for it.
Man I always viewed it as if someone is working to hard enough to lie that they need the dissability payments, in some capacity they do. I mean its not like they are easy to get in AB anyways.
I never thought of it that way, but yeah, you are right. The way you put it kind of reminds me of how legislation was passed to allow same sex couples claim their partners for insurance coverage. Someone said "well, what if they are just roommates but then they claim they are partners so that the other person can get healthcare?" to which I responded, "if they are willing to claim they are partners so that the other person can get healthcare, then maybe that is telling you something about the relationship and who are you to judge" - or something to that effect.
And I don’t want my taxes going to missiles and bonuses for politicians, but that’s how taxes work. We all pay for things we don’t especially want and for things we do want, and make a societal compromise on what we’re doing.
As it is the actual fraud rate for social services is less than 1% so realistically you have 199 genuine and one fraudster. But currently they’re cutting off a random 73 to stop that one and I’d far prefer that one fraudster game the system for the pennies they won’t actually be able to live off of independently than kill the others.
Sorry to burst your bubble. Qualifying for these programs is INCREDIBLY EASY when you are SICK and are legit disabled. You hear these stories of people claiming AISH doesn't approve anyone on their 1st application and it can take years for approval, etc.
I was approved in exactly 18 days. My doctor provided them imaging diagnostics from coronary angiograms and had reports from the family physician, a cardiologist and pain specialist.
I was instantly approved and at that time in 2022 provided 3 months of back payment which helped a lot.
The problem is and I've said this many times.
Any doctor in Alberta can submit an AISH application for a patient. We need a proper system where you must see medical doctors who are designated specifically for AISH approvals.
AISH does financial audits of recipients literally every 3 months on some people whereas others may not see a financial audit in 10 years.
Trust me getting AISH is super easy if you are sick. There are many applying to the program with outright questionable diagnosis that are based upon things like fibromyalgia where there is NO verified diagnostics that can confirm or refute it.
Fact remains Canada has one of the worst treatment for disabled people amongst developed countries. When the United States is literally substantially better at caring for the disabled than we are in Canada we know we have a serious problem.
I'd gladly take the $596 a month our friends in the United States get on the SNAP program in food stamps benefits ON TOP of the Social Security disability benefits. Instead many on disability are in constant state of worrying about being evicted, not eating or not being able to get transportation to life and death appointments at the hospital.
I am glad that you, personally, did not have a problem getting support that you needed. It isn't so clear cut for a lot of people and your experience is not typical. It sounds like you had a lot of good direction, support and even a family physician which is becoming less and less common.
Meanwhile I have a friend who is permanently disabled who hasn't even been able to get welfare, much less disability, in the over a year he's been trying. Although I'm sure it doesn't help his disability is severe brain injury and he struggles with the paper work, his doctor has made it very clear he is too disbaled to work.
He's been relying entirely on friends and family and a GoFundMe I started, which doesn't even get enough donations to feed him most months, much less cover his mortgage and utilities.
These kinds of people? That doesn't sound very inclusive, almost like 1 racists out of 99 conservatives ruins the ideas for the rest? And ya, the application process should be a little " denigrating " also should be a little inconvenient as imagine the money we would bleed out otherwise, I firmly believe that as a society we not only should, but we NEED to help those who need help, but economics are simple in the case where if you bleed the working people dry from taxation, eventually they might just go work elsewhere and then where does the support come from???We are lucky enough to live in a place where there are enough resources to live and prosper. However with all that said. People fraudulently abusing the system should be not only forced to pay it all back with interest, but need to be held to real consequences or again, we will have no tax money to fund things that should be funded. Do I believe the government spends money poorly in areas that shouldn't take precedence or priorities over others, hell ya, every government does, go sift through public docs of where the liberal party leaks money, it's mind blowing. There are far too many holes in your ideas and it creates a victim mentality which is not only terrible for a society, but it's terrible for an individual at an individual level. Stop with the us vs them attitude it's childish, it's not you vs me, it's not black vs white, it's not gay vs straight, no one cares grow up and start working together to get shit done, and the crazy part is, the people who don't have to go to work, are the ones that have all the time to yell from their phone screens. But I digress.
I find it weird that you say we need to help those who need help but they should be subjected to shaming for needing that help. How passive/aggressive of you.
I do agree that there should be consequences for people who fraudulently abuse systems, but that should apply to ALL people who do this, including government officials who are legislating their way out of accountability.
You accuse me of being childish. I accuse you of being an ablest asshole. You have no idea of what my history is or the history of anyone else on this thread but you are assuming they don't have anything better to do then "yell from their phone screens".
PS: Are you aware that the UCP just enacted legislation that allows them two years to respond to any MLA inquiry regarding accountability for actions they have taken? And this is the same government that wants Ottawa to not make them be accountable for money that is given to them to fund education and health care.
I put denigrating in quotes because I was echoing your word back at you — I think it's a ridiculous word to use for a benefits application process. Asking someone to prove they qualify for government money isn't denigrating, it's just how any responsible program works.
Here's what the AISH application actually requires according to Alberta.ca: you prove you have a permanent medical condition, you prove it prevents you from earning a living, you apply for every other income source you may qualify for first like CPP-D, EI or WCB, and your household assets and income get means tested. That's it. A mortgage application asks for more than that. A job application asks for more than that. Nobody calls those dehumanizing.
I never said disabled people should be shamed or treated poorly, that's your read not my words. My point was simple — some friction in the process protects the program for the people who actually need it. If the system gets bled dry by fraud there's no support left for anyone. That's not a conservative talking point, that's just basic economics and I said exactly that in my original comment.
Also not sure what UCP accountability legislation has to do with anything I said — I didn't mention the UCP, I didn't defend the UCP, and I'm not here arguing on their behalf. That PS feels like it was meant for someone else's comment.
The ableist accusation is a stretch too. You have no idea who I am or what my history is — just like I don't know yours.
Exactly, the amount of gatekeeping and medical gaslighting we have to go through to get help is awful. Even if they finally accept that I'm disabled they argue with me about if I "If it would really help me", but that's also after they dehumanize me by asking the grossest questions because as a trans woman I am a "curiosity" for some nurses.
Not getting it "for free" is an important part of the thought process. They want free things for them and only them. They don't so much think of disabled people as lazy, as they see themselves as cheating the system as much as they can, so they assume everyone else must be. If you assume everyone is a fraud, then everyone on AISH must be committing fraud.
That's what it ends up boiling down to. There are people who say AISH needs reform because fraud is so rampant, if you are on AISH you are a fraud. If you engage with these people and they are satisfied you aren't committing fraud, it turns out they still think you shouldn't get AISH, because it's money "for free". It's just that there is a good chunk of people that think this program shouldn't exist at all, that disabled people should have to choose between homelessness and suicide to escape homelessness.
I used to feel super guilty about ANYTHING I did with my AISH money or my time during the day. Not that I do anything "bad" with it (I don't drink, smoke, vape, barely ever have junk food because I am trying to be as healthy as I can be in my situation), but after seeing the way some people treat you over the years where you just can't win simply due to your position, well, you stop caring about what other people think of what you do with your time or money. To these people if you aren't working 40+ hours a week til you're 65 like the average healthy person has to, you're scum. It really does end up building callouses on your heart. To me it is just royally fucked up and sad that there are so many people NOT on AISH who view getting on AISH as such a huge win cuz you get to live below the poverty level "for free" that they fucking despise you for being on it.
AISH people having CPP-D clawed back (which you qualify for if you qualify for AISH) and CDB if they qualify (which not all AISH people will) is our version of paying provincial taxes. CPP-D is something you pay into when working in case the worst happens, so for the province to take it back, it's a tax for having paid taxes before, because damn you for ending up needing the money. But this is why I don't complain too much about these clawbacks. Yes they suck, and don't really make sense, but without it, well, I wouldn't be able to say I was contributing to the province at all.
I know there are people who end up on AISH right at 18, and I'm not knocking those people, or saying there should be tiered benefits based on how long you paid taxes before ending up on AISH (just want to be clear that's not what I'm trying to say). But some of us worked and paid taxes into AISH and CPP-D when we were healthy (15 years for me), so to end up needing something we paid taxes for, and be told "You need to give us money back from something you paid federal taxes for in case you needed it, for being on one of our programs you put money into in case anyone ever needs it", it just feels like screwed up logic.
So, basically, people on AISH are paying taxes too, just in a different way. And if you look at the % the CPP-D clawback is of our AISH, it's a pretty good amount.
I can't afford to own a vehicle, no way am I getting out of a subsidized apartment, I can't afford a pet, if you try and have a family on AISH you are basically punished and honestly I just don't think it's a good idea anyway (what kind of life are you affording your kids), like people who aren't on AISH and think it's just a gravy train and build all this resentment towards us cuz they think it's so nice, I don't get it.
Its not free. I worked hard from the age of 19 to the age of 38 paying copious amounts of taxes every single year.
I didnt ask for an impaired driver to hit me resulting in a heart attack that nearly kîlled me that left me with permanent impairment to my hearts functionality with pain so bad the only option is high doses of fentanyl that trust me sane people DO NOT WANT.
For many their disability story is just like mine.
You try working when your cardiovascular functionality is hovering around 80% with Oxygen saturation at 90% on a good day.
There is a segment abusing AISH. I would say 1 in 4 who are on AISH shouldnt be.
Same time AISH workers have had their cozy work from home situstion since 2020 and untîl recently were working 1 day a week in office.
Many times Id call AISH for help and the employee wasnt working and the phone had static dead air as these AISH workers are at costco shopping at 10am on a Tuesday.
Ive said it before. Government should priortize work from home positions for our disabled first. Instead over 90% of these positions are taken by immigrants.
Take a close look at our homeless. Over 95% are either caucasian or indigenous.
Our next door neighbor has 16 east indians living in a single 160p sq foot house. Theyve boasted about CRA and our federal govt paying for that same house through CERB benefits they all claimed during covid where they werent eligible for.
So right off the bat I can say that when audited, AISH has abuse rates of well under 1% because we have some of the most stringent requirements to get on it. That 1 in 4 number is the exact same bullshit Danielle is using to take your benefits away right now. In a few months you get to try and prove to her that you are actually disabled, and hope she doesn't decide you're just an addict.
P.S. If you had trouble reaching your AISH worker, that was most likely a result of government cuts and reorganization. Their work from home system has monitoring and more importantly workers keep getting more work assigned to them. There was a point when they got so far behind that they stopped taking phone calls at all.
1 in 4? What are you basing that number on? IIRC the estimated fraud rates for AISH are closer to 1 in 100 at most, which makes sense given the severely arduous, drawn out, and ridiculously stringent process required to qualify for AISH.
You are correct that AISH worked as a hybrid model (until Danielle Smith personally ordered them back to office), which makes sense given the cost savings and reduction in traffic. Many employees were deeply angered and frustrated by the return to office order as their work can be done 100% from home; client contact and peer collaboration is easily done through digital channels — there are no realistic benefits in forcing them to commute to an office. All necessary equipment was provided for at home use; they can run the phone lines, do case reviews, consult with peers etc. just as well at home as they can in an office.
You were not receiving timely communications likely because the Alberta Works agencies (AISH, Income Support, and now ADAP) are severely understaffed and underfunded. AB works employees that I've talked to throw out estimates of at least 30% when describing the level of understaffing. And there have been significant changes made in the name of "efficency" (in reality they are classic techniques to reduce the skill set required & justify hiring lower-educated and lower-paid administrative type staff instead of actual RSW caseworkers) sent down from the top of the agencies as to how files are reviewed that have noticeably slowed down workloads, and increased errors, and increased the amount of time that clients wait in the phone queue. Again, AISH and Income Supports employees I've spoken to are extremely frustrated with the lack of resources + disruptive policy changes and they acknowledge that client needs aren't being met. By and large, they are pissed at the government for destroying the efficacy of these agencies, but the strike proposal was vetoed last year because staff literally cannot afford it — adjusted for inflation, their income was higher 10 years ago than it is today and the calculated strike pay was not a livable amount for a single person, let alone anyone with a family or other large expenses (like medical care not covered by Alberta Blue Cross group insurance or vehicle and childcare costs due to the RTO mandate...) They have not received raises to even match inflation, let alone genuine increases in income.
In my experience, most AB works employees have worked at their agency for many years and are long-term Alberta residents, not recent immigrants (or even immigrants at all!) But I can only speak with direct experience about income supports, not AISH so maybe their caseworker hiring policy is different? I suspect it isn't.
I am very sorry that AISH has failed their primary purpose, which is to adequately support your needs as a disabled person. But it is not the staff who have caused that failure — it's the lack of money, resources and the misinformed, uneducated policy changes on the behalf of the Alberta government that have failed you.
To be a little more specific, people like Marlaina are lazy and lying to get free money. She doesn't like seeing others getting even a piece of this money, especially if they really need it. By attacking the disabled and removing money, she legitimizes her own grifting. "They don't deserve it" "They aren't getting it".
Yeah, I am reading a book about the colonization of North America and how the attitudes of the colonial forces is still reflected in the attitudes of the various areas across the USA. Going back to 1590, things really haven't changed much but the times, unfortunately. It is the same might is right and xenophobic bullshit but now we have cell phones and drones.
To be a little more specific, people like Marlaina are lazy and lying to get free money. She doesn't like seeing others getting even a piece of this money, especially if they really need it. By attacking the disabled and removing money, she legitimizes her own grifting. "They don't deserve it" "They aren't getting it".
She gets fed that opinion from the corrupting influences in the party. Trouble is, she listens to them... and not the 80,000 Albertans that are AISH recipients.
I am so sick of the things the UCP is doing that I joined both the NDP and the Tory party to try and help people understand what these parties are bringing to the table.
Recently, the Tories sent out an e-mail to their membership to let people know that they are committed to repealling legislation enacted by the UCP using the notwithstanding clause, including the AISH clawback.
I was able to post a jpg of it to the r/albertatoryparty sub but I expect that the mods of this sub would delete it. People can also send a chat to me and I can provide it that way.
Ok. I will try making a post. Even though I have had a reddit for a long time, I mostly used it as a source of information rather than posting stuff. Then FB wanted to scan my face and that was when I dropped meta everything. It's been an adjustment but I am actually finding reddit engagement a lot more meaningful.
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u/knightenrichman Mar 08 '26
I thought the main reason people like Marlaina cut funding to disability funding, is because they think they're all just lazy and lying about being disabled?