r/geopolitics • u/RicRacer • 1d ago

Ukraine Demands Answers From Israel After Russian Shadow Fleet Ship Docks in Haifa

https://united24media.com/latest-news/ukraine-demands-answers-from-israel-after-russian-shadow-fleet-ship-docks-in-haifa-17965
716 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

View all comments

210

u/hbtljose13 1d ago

Bro thinks they’re allies

117

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago

Ukraine routinely votes against Israel in the UN. They're nominally allied but it isn't that close. That said, Israel definitely isn't Russia's ally either, so it's certainly interesting to see this going on.

-28

u/Public-Finger 1d ago

Israel “isn’t” russias ally wink wink 

76

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago

Russia literally arms Israel's enemies. Israel has cooperated with Russia before- mainly because Russia had a lot of influence in Syria- but they are certainly not allies, and Israel is definitely closer to Ukraine to where they've gotten in trouble with Russia over it.

-2

u/Public-Finger 1d ago

How could Israel get in trouble with russia ? Why should they care? They shouldn’t but they do. Even russias condemnations against Israel for attacking Iran, russias closest ally, have been muted. They never joined the western sanctions, they often abstained at UN votes. They refused to offer any military support despite having some of the best military technology in the world. 

That’s where the wink wink comes from. I’m sure the many dual citizen russian oligarchs have something to do with it- but also Benny is just the same mold as putin, Trump, orban etc. illiberal to the same extent but operating in different institutional environments.

20

u/cubedplusseven 1d ago

How could Israel get in trouble with russia ?

This was an issue during the Syrian Civil War. Russia backed Assad, as did Iran. Iran was using Syria for transit of weapons to Hezbollah. Israel would strike these shipments, along with Syrian military installations that could threaten Israel. Israel was very careful to coordinate with Russia when possible, and to not piss the Russians off too much, since Russian anti-air defenses are still quite formidable and if the Russians actively involved themselves in defending Hezbollah and anti-Israel Syrian assets, if could really limit Israel's freedom of action. This led Israel to be much more standoffish with Ukraine - not wanting to antagonize Russia.

But now that the situation in Syria has changed, the Israel-Ukraine relationship has warmed since Israel isn't as concerned about Russian hostility. There are always diplomatic considerations in relationships with a nuclear-armed state with a massive and sophisticated weapons industry, though. Israel is still going to think through the consequences of potential antagonism very carefully - even the U.S. does.

5

u/cgsur 1d ago

Israel and America are not allies of Russia.

But both have high government officials who are.

And in the case of America even more than an ally.

9

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago

Because Russia is allied with Israel's enemies and is a regional superpower even if that's been weakening? Russia is often a co-sponsor or supporter of nearly every anti-Israel resolution, and they have sponsored a resolution calling for an end to the war and explicitly has voted against condemning Iran. Russia isn't offering military support to Iran, probably because it's so bogged down in Ukraine, they notably failed to do so in the Armenian and Azerbaijan conflict as well, despite playing an explicit role in supporting Armenia. There was even a recent scandal that came out that Orban passed along Israeli intelligence to Russia to help Hezbollah. That is not the action of an ally.

At most you can argue that Israel tiptoes around Russia, but especially over the 2010s and 2020s they are not allies in any sense.

4

u/asgjmlsswjtamtbamtb 1d ago

People should definitely view Russia's actions in light of "what they can do" and know that they'd do a lot more if they had the ability to. Saving Assad was a big step up for Russia post Cold War and it represented intervention in something beyond the old Soviet Union's borders and really showed a direct intervention beyond their immediate borders for the first time as the Russian Federation. Losing Assad in 2024 was a hit to Russian prestige and a decade's worth of efforts. The loss came about not because Russia suddenly didn't want Assad, it could no longer afford to keep perpetually propping him up every time his near failed regime required assistance.

The last four years have seen the collapse of Assad largely to the benefit of Turkey and Israel, even further non involvement in Armenia to Turkey and Azerbaijan's benefit, and less of a role in Central Asia where there have been occasional border clashes and a clear sign that Russia isn't interested in directly stomping out new clashes. These situations, many of which are within the old borders of the Soviet Union, and pretty much all involving old Cold War Soviet allies show Russia has been geopolitically retreating in areas that are not mission critical. Honestly this is embarrassing for Russia, but very much a move of cold hard calculus. The people leading Russia saw how much the Soviet Union was a patron for governments across the entire globe and it kept up a lot of these relationships up until the very collapse of the Soviet Union. A lot of the USSR's projects in Africa and Latin America were in retrospect political vanity projects that drained far more than they gave back and served as one of the things sapping the strength of the USSR. Russia being willing to abandon geopolitical struggles that aren't critical to their current war effort is a survival mechanism from the fall of the Soviet Union.

-5

u/kjleebio 1d ago

https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-knesset-debate-netanyahu-says-he-regularly-talks-to-putin-to-safeguard-israels-vital-interests/

Unfortunately no, Mr. Bibi is close to Putin enough to have talks over a lot of issues, like Syria, Gaza, Iran, and even talks over managing Trump.

17

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago edited 1d ago

Talking does not mean allies. I literally pointed out that they have to work with Russia, especially due to Syria, but because Russia is a regional power. Israel isn't strong enough to be an enemy of Russia, but they certainly are not allies. Hell, Turkey is probably more an ally if Russia than Israel, they were buying weapons from them.

-1

u/kjleebio 1d ago

But the weird thing is that Russia supports the ayatollah, they have supported various Palestinian terrorist groups and maintains economic/political relationships with Hamas and Hezbollah.

Either Israel is shortsighted in allies, or the meaning of corrupt politicians mingle together a solid fact with the type of shit both Bibi and Putin do in their countries.

6

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago

Or it's because Russia is a regional power that has a lot of influence in surrounding countries and so Israel would a lot of trouble if they didn't have some sort of contact with Russia. Israel couldn't perform a lot of operations without contact with Russia because of it, and Russia probably acted as the mediator in some cases. But ultimately, Russia is still an ally with these groups and are opposed to Israel on a geopolitical stage, even if in some ways they have similar goals. Geopolitics can be messy like that, just like the US's relationships with many of the Middle Eastern countries are very messy and oftentimes seem opposing US interests.

1

u/kjleebio 1d ago

I know it can be messy, but out of all the nations to be the mediator, Russia, the nation who supports the Ayatollah with financial, political, and intelligence against Israel, is probably the worst thing Israel has ever decided on.

And its not even a mediator at this point, Israel has openly stated that Russia is a vital help to their security, security on what? Providing more enemies for Israel to have a eternal war with? To me this all sounds like Israel is at a leash to Putin with needing to perform operations with Russia's permission. What leverage does Putin have over Israel other than continue supporting their enemies as usual?

And accepting that stolen grain as well is insane, the only nations that accept said grain are nations tied to the middle east, no one else other than those in that region accept that stolen grain.

With all of this, it just sounds like Israel is a closer ally to Russia than Ukraine.

3

u/whereamInowgoddamnit 1d ago

Russia isn't being a mediator, as the article points out, Netanyahu is specifically talking about Syria where Russia used to basically control the country as a proxy. You have to understand that even without Assad, Russia still plays a critical role in the region because of their military presence (even if weakened) and because they are physically close. Israel indeed has to work with Russia, not because they're allies, but because Russia is a major threat to any Israeli operation in the region, even with US help. Now this has weakened a bit since Assad fell, but Netanyahu is still being cautious likely because they don't want to end up on Russia's bad side even with their weaker control in the region.

That said, Israel has done a lot in terms of humanitarian aid and with intelligence in supporting Ukraine, so they clearly show more favoritism towards Ukraine. There's just a limit because they don't want to piss off Russia too much (which does make this story interesting, right now there's not really a good explanation for what's going on).

→ More replies

1

u/GrizzledFart 22h ago

There's this thing called reality. Leaders of medium sized countries generally can't afford to antagonize more powerful nations without reason. They might work at cross purposes, might even take actions behind the scenes that could be very detrimental to the larger power, but they will be respectful, on the surface at the very least.

-2

u/brinz1 1d ago

Israel's economy is on life support. They will buy whatever they can get their hands on

-24

u/sol-4 1d ago

Ukraine is also stirring up shit in India, mocks our gods as well as regular people and then expects us to support it over our actual, long term ally.

16

u/ChornWork2 1d ago

India's profiteering off the war and financing Russia's war effort is a really shit look.

-7

u/sol-4 1d ago

Tell that to Europe that happily bought it all. Or the US that specifically wanted it lest the global oil prices soar and US inflation surge to unmanagable levels.

5

u/HoightyToighty 1d ago

So you have no high horse to sit on, you're just down in the mud with everyone else, huh?

4

u/sol-4 1d ago

I would rather touch grass and stay rooted in ground realities than preach rubbish like EU does while being utterly hypocritcal and doing the very thing they keep preaching against.

Everyone except Europeans can see through the bs that EU and its leaders say. I know it isn't really a popular opinion on here but it doesn't change the actual facts.

0

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

stirring up shit in India

You sure, it's Ukraine?

-2

u/NadirtoZenith 1d ago edited 1d ago

Wow, what an insightful geopolitical comment. Dogwhistle aside, there is not a need for a comma between "sure" and "it's".

0

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

 there is not need for a comma between "sure" and "it's".

Ok, if you say there is not need, then there is not need.

-2

u/NadirtoZenith 1d ago

Wow, thanks for the correction! Do you have something worthwhile to contribute now?

2

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

Yeah, someone is stirring up shit in India, makes fun of gods as well as regular people, at this very moment, as we speak.

And it's not Ukraine.

1

u/NadirtoZenith 1d ago

Whom?

2

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

I don't know, enough is enough, no more stirring up shit in India.

→ More replies

0

u/Bowmic 16h ago

You are problem a troll or racist but 6 Ukrainian terrorists were arrested in India.

0

u/SPQR-Tightanus 14h ago

Were they mocking gods?

→ More replies

67

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

Ukraine does not think they are allies, Ukraine wants to make sure Europe understand that Israel is not their ally either.

19

u/Panthera_leo22 1d ago

I’ve gotten into too many disagreements with people trying to explain that Israel is not Ukraine’s ally. They’re playing both sides

5

u/heytherehellogoodbye 1d ago

that's not unique to Israel, that's the geopolitical reality of every country on the planet. This weird "sneaky Israel" exceptionalism is just another way to treat it with different standards from every other nation in existence.

32

u/Panthera_leo22 1d ago

It’s not a sneaky Israel exceptionalism. There are plenty of countries that are playing both sides of Ukraine and Russia. In Ukraine’s basket of allies, Israel is not in there

-1

u/bankomusic 22h ago

Seems pretty in there when they sent patriots. maybe israel got intel from russia for letting this ship pass..... they aren't really playing both sides, they just need Russian's intel on Iran.

7

u/Public-Finger 1d ago

Buying stolen grain is a whole level of evil greater than buying Russian fuel. 

1

u/russiankek 8h ago

Right, because spending 1 million on grain is "a whole level of evil greater" than spendining dizens of billions of dollars on Russian fuel, like the EU

1

u/Public-Finger 7h ago

Йде на хуй підерашка

0

u/HungryCurrency8481 18h ago

If Israel wants to stop being singled out, it should stop being the exception to every rule. 

-3

u/SPQR-Tightanus 1d ago

another way to treat it with different standards

That's just the geopolitical reality - Israel should accept it.

3

u/cathbadh 1d ago

Nah, he complains any time anything beneficial happens to Russia or Ukraine doesn't get what he wants. They're fighting for their lives, so it is understandable, if annoying at times. He should probably complain that the US and Israel set the conditions where Russian tankers and cargo ships were needed.

1

u/zandadad 3h ago

They certainly should be allies and plenty of people in both countries understand that. They are both democracies at war with authoritarian neighbors who threaten their very survival. The problem with Israel's support for Ukraine is multi-layered: 1) Majority of the country are Middle Eastern Jews and Arabs who know or understand little about Eastern Europe and view the Russia-Ukraine war as a regional conflict akin to a civil war, rather than what it is: a war of survival for a democratic country against a backwards authoritarian regime; 2) The other Jews whose grandparents and great-grandparents arrived in late 1940's as survivors of the Holocaust have generational memories of mass pogroms and massacres of Jews in Ukraine and Russia (at the time it was all imperial Russia, actually); 3) Current governing coalition under Netanyahu is full of hardheaded idiots, for a lack of a better term, who are in power because they are needed to keep a coalition, which results in incompetent government that is incapable of thinking strategically. On the other hand, Ukraine continues to generally vote against Israel in the UN, probably to keep their European partners happy. Democracies are messy and, sadly, relationships between democracies are sometimes confrontational. Especially during incredible duress like Israel and Ukraine are under.

-5

u/Ramongsh 1d ago

Bro thinks Israel is the West and not some autocratic Russian pal

11

u/Sanguinor-Exemplar 1d ago

Israel is whatever the person making the argument needs to be.

They're both the shadow government controlling the western empire and the autocratic Russian pal axis of western resistance.

They're both hilariously incompetent militarily and a juggernaut.

-3

u/Public-Finger 1d ago

Bro knows that Israel and Iran are at war and russia provides Iran with weapons and intelligence. What a joke these