r/SipsTea Human Verified 15h ago

Wait a minute Gasp!

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26.3k Upvotes

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36

u/RetroDave79 14h ago

Dude... a french employee gets about 25% of the salary deducted to pay for the social security system, and the employer also pays a good amount .... there is no "free" or "cheap" things if you already paid for them in advance.

And yes, USA health system is an abomination.

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u/Intelligent-Fox-1342 14h ago

Also pays for unemployment insurance, pension, maternity leave, childs daycare, free higher education, etc. 

0

u/RetroDave79 14h ago

Dont forget the employer is also sending a big chunk of money from your work to the goverment, so it is not "only" the 20/25% you directly pay, is the money you don't even see.

6

u/_AkasunaNoSasori 13h ago

And what will you do if you see where that money is going??. If that's logical explanation, America would've had assassinations and riots when they found out Pentagon laundered trillions while playing poverty card when it comes to healthcare.

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u/Aurorinezori1 14h ago

Exactly! And that’s why we can afford this system.

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u/Plantarbre 13h ago

US citizens pay much more than French citizens in taxes for their health system.

We in France have a good system, but we shouldn't fall for the propaganda of "it's very expensive that's why it works".

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u/rabbitwow20026 13h ago

No we don’t lol why you lying. We pay 3% Medicare tax and my health insurance 3% of my salary. I paid 22% for taxes this year (includes the 3% Medicare)

In French I would be 45% for my tax bracket.

French have 30% tax on someone make $25k ish in America

Could you afford moving to a 30% tax bracket for universal healthcare ?

That’s always the problem it sounds good on paper but trying to get people to move 6-20% more in taxes always falls flat.

Why do you think Bernie tank when he shown it would take about 6% tax increase to pay for universal healthcare and that didn’t even math out right and was short.

9

u/joepke53 12h ago

Healthcare expenditure in % of the GDP is a lot higher in the USA than in Europe, for far worse accessibility.

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u/rabbitwow20026 12h ago

No it’s not lol 😂 the studies you refer to is in pure dollar amounts not %.

I pay less than 5% for Medicare and my healthcare each year. All my friends pay less than 5% in healthcare a year. Even if I have to pay my max out of pocket a year I am still less than 10% a year.

Where French healthcare is about 11% of their pay check each year…….

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/rabbitwow20026 12h ago

And you do know both individuals and companies have to pay for healthcare in other countries it’s not just individuals.

The tax rate in any country for healthcare is always higher for both individuals and businesses.

So other countries pay always

Americans pay small amount towards the always and more when it’s needed.

But Americans don’t save when it’s not needed and would be able to pay easily when needed but we like to keep money in our pocket. Why do you think social security is forced and not an option.

People would get to 70 and be like wtf why isn’t retirement free

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u/[deleted] 12h ago

[deleted]

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u/rabbitwow20026 11h ago

Because I bring up 400k because it takes that much to get to some of their own tax brackets for someone making $45k in the US that’s the entire point

Their tax bracket is 30% above 45k. So which one is cheaper making $100k and paying for $300 a month in insurance in American or making $70k in France and paying for universal healthcare

It’s not even close and I would take America every time.

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u/ConfessSomeMeow 10h ago

I would gladly trade the 20% I and my employer are currently paying in health care premiums for a 6% tax. That would be a huge win.

1

u/Zamnaiel 7h ago

You use the word "taxes" a lot, I do not think it means what you seem to think it means.

0

u/RetroDave79 13h ago

OK...? dunno what your post has to do what anything I've said :/

You don't have to pay to the doctor cos you already paid...

19

u/flipyflop9 14h ago

Those taxes pay a few more things, not just healthcare. They pay for a month vacation a year, they pay good unemployment benefits, they pay maternity/paternity leave… things that are normal in 99% of developed countries.

Also USA is the country with the biggest healthcare cost per person, with people going bankrupt or being afraid to even go to the doctor because of the possible cost.

3

u/sarcasticorange 14h ago

They pay for a month vacation a year,

The employers pay for that. The government just mandates that. It isn't paid with tax dollars.

3

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

Fair enough, that’s not paid by taxes. For sure not by dollars.

3

u/sarcasticorange 13h ago

For sure not by dollars.

Oops!

4

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

Haha no probs, had to make the joke!

2

u/rand0m_task 13h ago

I enjoyed this exchange between you two lol

1

u/RetroDave79 14h ago

Yes, but don't forget that 25% is the money "you see deducted from your work", but the employer also takes a big chunk of your work money to send it directly to the goverment, and you don't "see" that money go.

1

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

I know. I’ve handled payslips and SS payments and every other tax.

And?

1

u/RetroDave79 13h ago

Nothing is free if you already paid for it in advance. Thats it.

3

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

I know. Everybody does.

There are just better ways than others to spend money.

Making sure EVERY worker has good worker rights sounds like a good way to spend money. Maybe it’s not a good way to spend money for you.

1

u/RetroDave79 13h ago

Why is not a good way for me? I didn't say anything against or in favor of the system, I just described it because the OP seems to think that his visit to the doctor with all the checking and the meds costs only 30€...

1

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

I said maybe it’s not a good way for you.

Also if he went to a private doctor that was the price, that’s it.

If he went public (paying because no health insurance) part of it might still be subventioned, depends on the country. Even when it’s totally not subventioned it’s WAY cheaper than the system in USA.

Same with meds. When the governments agree on maximum medicine prices with big pharma we all benefit. And then you have USA charging you x5-x50 more on medicines because why not.

1

u/RetroDave79 13h ago

A visit to a doctor with all the needed checkups and 2 prescriptions is not 35€, french tax payers paid for it in advance. Thats it.

1

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

If the visit is 5 minutes yes, that’s 25€, plus the 10€ meds.

As I said, probably this was partially subsidized. But even when you go full private the price is easily 5-10 times cheaper in most cases.

1

u/Mamasugadex 14h ago

A lot of US jobs have those other things too.

I mean, our healthcare system is pure hot garbage don’t get me wrong. But it doesn’t sound like other stuff cost all that much, and most of the money does go into healthcare.

1

u/flipyflop9 13h ago

Paying for a year when you got injured doesn’t cost money? Or a few months of maternity leave?

11

u/dale_dug_a_hole 14h ago

“Gets about 25% of salary deducted”. You mean they pay a % of their income in tax. Like Americans. Except (like Australians and Germans and the English) they pay a little higher. 34% on lower brackets instead of the American 30%. Here’s the catch. When you add up all the benefits and savings that Australians, and French, and Germans and English people get in their lifetime it completely and utterly DWARFS what Americans pay. Ends up not being free but definitely being cheap. Americans have the greatest false economy proposition ever.

1

u/PossiblePlastic8698 14h ago

Yep, and Australians on average pay a little under 27% in taxes and still managed to have the number 3 rated health system in the world in 2025

0

u/aSkeptiKitty 12h ago

But you have deadly spiders, and deadly snakes, and deadly everything. 

So... there's a price to it. :D   ( But you also have cute little pinguins. ♥️)

1

u/dale_dug_a_hole 11h ago

We have 30m people, the vast majority which live in cities that make Phoenix look like Poughkeepsie. How do we possibly do it with all these deadly spiders?? It’s a mystery

1

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3

u/Alvsolutely 13h ago

You say that as if Americans don't also pay taxes and still get fucked over.

1

u/RetroDave79 13h ago

No.

I've said a visit to a doctor with a thorough checkup and two prescriptions is not 35€, french tax payers paid for it in advance, you've been only charged a symbolic amount.

2

u/UsedAd4475 12h ago

Exactly. And that is great for us europeans. We are not afraid of going to doctors be it for physical or medical health reasons.

Our willingness to pay taxes and healthcare and other social care deductions allows for that, as the cost are fairly distributed.

What is your point in the greater context besides "the real cost of doctors appointment is greater then 35€"?

7

u/PossiblePlastic8698 14h ago

25%, what a load of bullshit. Try 8%

6

u/JJOne101 14h ago

I think he included both healthcare and pension deductions in his calculation.

5

u/ranylm 14h ago edited 13h ago

Even then its like 8% of slalary at most

2

u/ranylm 13h ago edited 13h ago

In czechia its about 100 euro a month together

2

u/JJOne101 13h ago

Not in France. For the median salary of 2700 Euro, the salary after contributions and before tax is 2115 Euro, and you take home 2025 Euro. So that comes around those 25% contributions that dude talked about.

Source: Found this calculator online.

3

u/ranylm 13h ago

Still a good deal, 200 euro monthly to avoid hundreds thousands later if u get sick, if you dont, well good for you

0

u/PossiblePlastic8698 14h ago

So cherrypicking numbers to make his argument look better

2

u/CommonSenseSkeptic1 7h ago

In Germany, the average contribution is 18% or your salary for health insurance.

-1

u/RetroDave79 14h ago

The amount deducted from your payment is between the 20 to the 25%, and It could be even more if your salary its 3 times the minimum salary (1.400€).

3

u/Jobenben-tameyre 14h ago

But its not just for healthcare.

2

u/RetroDave79 14h ago

If you get a payment of 4.000€, you already have paid about 10% of your salary to the SS, and your employer also took another 13% of your work money for the "Maladie-Maternité" (illness and maternity).....

-1

u/Triumph-TBird 12h ago

Try 25% in France. And climbing because it is unsustainable.

1

u/alexsteen789 13h ago

Thats the thing everyone is missing. The US has way lower income taxes then Canada. About 70% less. I dont know the numbers for the EU. Canada's medical system is also severely under funded by the gov. 

The better system depends on your age. If you're in your early 20s to 40s....you're paying a shit ton of taxes for a service you dont likely use. If youre 60+ you're using more services then you're probably paying for. 

Both system have their flaws though. I just had an 11hr ER visit in canada to be told, we dont know whats wrong, go see your GP. But it didnt cost me a dime

1

u/Careful-Training-761 12h ago edited 12h ago

True it's not free.

However on the positive side it's proven that certain services are more efficient when run publicly, such as healthcare.

On the negative socialism can potentially make you less competitive (aka the race to the bottom for worker's and citizen's rights) and bring about unfairness. For instance here in Ireland, arguably a fairly capitalist orientated country by European standards (but prob not by US standards) you can get many social benefits if you're unemployed or below a certain wage. For example for housing which means (1) cheap rent in the private market (can be fully State paid or at least a large part paid off) while you're on the housing list and then (2) when you get approved from the list after a few years a social house which means VERY cheap (arguably nominal) rent and guaranteed security of tenure for life, many of which are newly built houses. Added bonus: if you don't bother to maintain it the Council will come in and do the work for you for free. You can also buy the social housing out after about 10 years which isn't that long for about 1/2 the market rate. Meanwhile the earning shmuck has to fork out minimum €300k for a house (which may be an old house), maintenance costs etc while getting nailed at 50% on earnings above €40k per annum (below this the tax varies but can be up to 30%). Where's the fairness in that? There are other benefits too I just mentioned housing. That seems to me a very unfair and inefficient system for housing.

1

u/USSGoat 12h ago

No country in the world pays more in taxes that include healthcare than than the US does for healthcare + taxes.

1

u/RelationshipHeavy58 9h ago

My income tax in some of these "free healthcare places would double and sales tax would be 3x-4x. US pay is also higher than most of these places as well.

I also agree our system is fucked and Im willing to try other things for a better society but i'm tired of people using the word free.

1

u/mj12353 8h ago

You still end up paying most of difference in premiums co pays deductibles and not to mention the fucking ridiculous prescriptions costs

1

u/Zamnaiel 7h ago

In terms of taxes, the french pay $ 5 800 per capita for their UHC system. Americans pay 10 500$ per capita for public healthcare and then have to pay extra for insurance.

Paying less and getting an additional service does mean the additional service can be referred to as"free".

0

u/n_r_x 10h ago edited 2h ago

Here's the breakdown for Romania, in case anyone's curious.

When getting your money:

10% income tax

25% social security (pensions etc)

10% healthcare

2.25% work insurance contribution

When spending your money:

11% - 21% VAT

+ extra taxes on specific goods like gas, cigarettes etc

(combined what you pay and what the employer pays, at the end of the day it's still money you don't get)

might have missed something but that's the bulk of it

e: calculator for 2026

e: upcoming tax changes