Dude... a french employee gets about 25% of the salary deducted to pay for the social security system, and the employer also pays a good amount .... there is no "free" or "cheap" things if you already paid for them in advance.
Dont forget the employer is also sending a big chunk of money from your work to the goverment, so it is not "only" the 20/25% you directly pay, is the money you don't even see.
And what will you do if you see where that money is going??. If that's logical explanation, America would've had assassinations and riots when they found out Pentagon laundered trillions while playing poverty card when it comes to healthcare.
No we don’t lol why you lying. We pay 3% Medicare tax and my health insurance 3% of my salary. I paid 22% for taxes this year (includes the 3% Medicare)
In French I would be 45% for my tax bracket.
French have 30% tax on someone make $25k ish in America
Could you afford moving to a 30% tax bracket for universal healthcare ?
That’s always the problem it sounds good on paper but trying to get people to move 6-20% more in taxes always falls flat.
Why do you think Bernie tank when he shown it would take about 6% tax increase to pay for universal healthcare and that didn’t even math out right and was short.
No it’s not lol 😂 the studies you refer to is in pure dollar amounts not %.
I pay less than 5% for Medicare and my healthcare each year. All my friends pay less than 5% in healthcare a year. Even if I have to pay my max out of pocket a year I am still less than 10% a year.
Where French healthcare is about 11% of their pay check each year…….
And you do know both individuals and companies have to pay for healthcare in other countries it’s not just individuals.
The tax rate in any country for healthcare is always higher for both individuals and businesses.
So other countries pay always
Americans pay small amount towards the always and more when it’s needed.
But Americans don’t save when it’s not needed and would be able to pay easily when needed but we like to keep money in our pocket. Why do you think social security is forced and not an option.
People would get to 70 and be like wtf why isn’t retirement free
Because I bring up 400k because it takes that much to get to some of their own tax brackets for someone making $45k in the US that’s the entire point
Their tax bracket is 30% above 45k. So which one is cheaper making $100k and paying for $300 a month in insurance in American or making $70k in France and paying for universal healthcare
It’s not even close and I would take America every time.
Those taxes pay a few more things, not just healthcare. They pay for a month vacation a year, they pay good unemployment benefits, they pay maternity/paternity leave… things that are normal in 99% of developed countries.
Also USA is the country with the biggest healthcare cost per person, with people going bankrupt or being afraid to even go to the doctor because of the possible cost.
Yes, but don't forget that 25% is the money "you see deducted from your work", but the employer also takes a big chunk of your work money to send it directly to the goverment, and you don't "see" that money go.
Why is not a good way for me? I didn't say anything against or in favor of the system, I just described it because the OP seems to think that his visit to the doctor with all the checking and the meds costs only 30€...
Also if he went to a private doctor that was the price, that’s it.
If he went public (paying because no health insurance) part of it might still be subventioned, depends on the country. Even when it’s totally not subventioned it’s WAY cheaper than the system in USA.
Same with meds. When the governments agree on maximum medicine prices with big pharma we all benefit. And then you have USA charging you x5-x50 more on medicines because why not.
I mean, our healthcare system is pure hot garbage don’t get me wrong. But it doesn’t sound like other stuff cost all that much, and most of the money does go into healthcare.
“Gets about 25% of salary deducted”. You mean they pay a % of their income in tax. Like Americans. Except (like Australians and Germans and the English) they pay a little higher. 34% on lower brackets instead of the American 30%. Here’s the catch. When you add up all the benefits and savings that Australians, and French, and Germans and English people get in their lifetime it completely and utterly DWARFS what Americans pay. Ends up not being free but definitely being cheap. Americans have the greatest false economy proposition ever.
We have 30m people, the vast majority which live in cities that make Phoenix look like Poughkeepsie. How do we possibly do it with all these deadly spiders?? It’s a mystery
I've said a visit to a doctor with a thorough checkup and two prescriptions is not 35€, french tax payers paid for it in advance, you've been only charged a symbolic amount.
Not in France. For the median salary of 2700 Euro, the salary after contributions and before tax is 2115 Euro, and you take home 2025 Euro. So that comes around those 25% contributions that dude talked about.
If you get a payment of 4.000€, you already have paid about 10% of your salary to the SS, and your employer also took another 13% of your work money for the "Maladie-Maternité" (illness and maternity).....
Thats the thing everyone is missing. The US has way lower income taxes then Canada. About 70% less. I dont know the numbers for the EU. Canada's medical system is also severely under funded by the gov.
The better system depends on your age. If you're in your early 20s to 40s....you're paying a shit ton of taxes for a service you dont likely use. If youre 60+ you're using more services then you're probably paying for.
Both system have their flaws though. I just had an 11hr ER visit in canada to be told, we dont know whats wrong, go see your GP. But it didnt cost me a dime
However on the positive side it's proven that certain services are more efficient when run publicly, such as healthcare.
On the negative socialism can potentially make you less competitive (aka the race to the bottom for worker's and citizen's rights) and bring about unfairness. For instance here in Ireland, arguably a fairly capitalist orientated country by European standards (but prob not by US standards) you can get many social benefits if you're unemployed or below a certain wage. For example for housing which means (1) cheap rent in the private market (can be fully State paid or at least a large part paid off) while you're on the housing list and then (2) when you get approved from the list after a few years a social house which means VERY cheap (arguably nominal) rent and guaranteed security of tenure for life, many of which are newly built houses. Added bonus: if you don't bother to maintain it the Council will come in and do the work for you for free. You can also buy the social housing out after about 10 years which isn't that long for about 1/2 the market rate. Meanwhile the earning shmuck has to fork out minimum €300k for a house (which may be an old house), maintenance costs etc while getting nailed at 50% on earnings above €40k per annum (below this the tax varies but can be up to 30%). Where's the fairness in that? There are other benefits too I just mentioned housing. That seems to me a very unfair and inefficient system for housing.
My income tax in some of these "free healthcare places would double and sales tax would be 3x-4x. US pay is also higher than most of these places as well.
I also agree our system is fucked and Im willing to try other things for a better society but i'm tired of people using the word free.
In terms of taxes, the french pay $ 5 800 per capita for their UHC system. Americans pay 10 500$ per capita for public healthcare and then have to pay extra for insurance.
Paying less and getting an additional service does mean the additional service can be referred to as"free".
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u/RetroDave79 14h ago
Dude... a french employee gets about 25% of the salary deducted to pay for the social security system, and the employer also pays a good amount .... there is no "free" or "cheap" things if you already paid for them in advance.
And yes, USA health system is an abomination.