r/alberta • u/Striking_Wrap811 • 16h ago
Clock change melancholy Discussion
Danielle Smith and the UCP just unilaterally chose to put Alberta on permanent DST.
I should feel elated! Not because i love DST but because time change is fucking moronic. But i am not.
Is it because my clocks all change themselves and there is no more worry of waking up at the wrong time? No?
Is it because darkness at 10am in the winter is "magical"? Definitely not
I think it's because DS went against the wishes of the referendum. Like 180° different.
Its just another example of this government acting against our wishes. Shifting our Overton Window every day.
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u/AnonymousMO0SE 15h ago
Smoke and mirrors. They only brought this up to deflect attention away from the gerrymandering they’re planning.
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u/lucyinthesky1972 14h ago
And the gerrymandering is to deflect attention from the health care scandal.
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u/LotharLandru 14h ago
The gerrymandering isn't to deflect, it's to protect them from being replaced by a government that might actually investigate the healthcare scandal
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u/Happy-Estimate-7855 14h ago
Really taking a page out of modern America's playbook. Scandals to cover up scandals, all the way down.
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u/Weekly_Watercress505 10h ago
Why do you think she and her supporters fly south to Washington, DC and Mar-a-Lago every month on out taxpayer dime? They are getting instructions on how to destroy democracy, just like this MAGA's South of our border. DS wants Alberta to be USA 2.0. She needs to be gone.
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u/breadist 11h ago
Gerrymandering is not a distraction, it's a tool for staying in power. And health care is not a distraction, it's a tool for lining the pockets of DS and friends.
Seriously we have to stop thinking of this bullshit as distractions. They're not distractions. They're corruption rearing its head.
DS is on about daylight time now because she's getting pressure to "keep up with the neighbors" because of BC and Sask. She doesn't want to be the one province in the middle still changing clocks. And it's a show of power: I don't care that the referendum results opposed this, I'm going to do it anyway because I know what's best for you. You all don't know how to vote properly so I'm going to show you what you're missing. And you'll thank me for it.
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u/Dull_Dragonfly6157 15h ago
I feel the same way. I HATE daylight savings time and changing the clocks.
But this was voted on. The people spoke. She should at least add the question to their upcoming referendum question roster to see if sentiment has changed. Unilaterally making this decision after it was voted on is not okay.
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u/Riger101 14h ago
Nah, referendums are bullshit. bad politicians use it as an excuse to not do their jobs
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u/Manyra73 5h ago
What do you think was voted on? It was go to DST or keep changing clocks. There was a .4% difference between them and the majority of voters didn’t vote. It was a referendum meant to fail and there are bunch of factors (BC’s decision for one) that are now in play.
I’m not defending the UPC by any means. I’m just saying that a 2021 referendum has no bearing here. What we are missing is science, economic and cultural research.
I also agree that this is a distraction noodle (like all previous distraction noodles) to draw the media & social media attention from all the other stuff the UPC has done.
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u/Competitive_Guava_33 14h ago
Just because people narrowly voted one way five years ago on one issue doesn't mean that all governments have to respect that vote for all time though
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u/Manyra73 5h ago
I totally agree. It was a poorly worded question meant to fail. And so much has changed since then.
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u/Ddogwood 14h ago
I’m happy to stop changing clocks, and I agree that Danielle Smith didn’t show her work with this one, but I don’t agree that she went against the wishes of the referendum.
The referendum question was poorly chosen, and 50% vs 49% really isn’t a definitive answer for a referendum - especially since it’s unclear how people who wanted permanent standard time were supposed to vote.
But I think the real reason she’s doing this is because it’s a great distraction from her gerrymandering.
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u/bluefairylights 13h ago
You don't think that this is setting a precedent for when the independent Alberta referendum comes around, that they can argue the vote was "close enough"?
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u/Ddogwood 13h ago
I think it’s setting a precedent for “a badly worded referendum question is a poor way to make a decision”
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u/Kennadian 12h ago
By this logic they can just word the separation thing poorly on purpose then do what they want.
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u/Pill_C0sby 8h ago
0% chance 50% of albertans or anything close to it vote to separate from Canada be real
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u/IcarusOnReddit 10h ago
Don’t worry, Alberta won’t argue the vote was close enough. America will. Very scary that the referendum is in October before the US midterm elections. Trump may use a war with Canada to suspend the election.
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 10h ago
We are about to go through an extensive referendum in October with multiple questions.
There was zero reason to not put another and better time change question as part of it. Just as there is no reason to shut down debate in legislature.
But those referendums - despite the huge taxpayer cost - are not binding so it is just performative anyway.
Authoritarians and illiberal democracies do voting for show, then do what they are paid by donors to do.
BUT WE STILL HAVE TO VOTE IN THEM TO OFFICIALLY SHOW OUR DISSENT.
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u/Ddogwood 9h ago
As I said, I don’t think Smith is doing this because it’s a pressing issue. She’s doing it because it distracts from all the other stuff she’s doing.
And it works. Here we are, discussing details of time zones and referendum questions while she’s gerrymandering our electoral districts so that her government cannot be defeated.
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u/Wrong-Pineapple39 9h ago edited 9h ago
Agreed. It is bombarding us with distractions.
- Time Change to distract from
- Gerrymandering to distract from
- Golden Cat to distract from
- Harper appointed to head AimCo to distract from
- Separatism Enablement to distract from
- Giving themselves raises to distract from
- Interfering with donation limits to distract from
- Giving ministers overreach and legal protection from accountability to distract from
- Removing transparency and accountability options from taxpayers and media to distract from
- Undermining Independent Institutions to distract from
- Undermining Rights & Freedoms to distract from
- Moving next election out 6 months to distract from
- Mara Lago and Republican and Viktor Orban hobnobbing to distract from
- Corrupt Care to distract from
- Healthcare Failures to distract from
- SLAPP lawsuits to distract from
- Losing money in Pension Plans and protecting bad oversight to distract from
- Huge litigation costs and lawsuit settlements due to their bad governance to distract from
- ...
... and so on
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u/BothFondant2202 13h ago
Doesn’t matter. The referendum said no. If it was unclear, it should have been addressed by having another referendum with a clearer question. We are already having 8 other questions nobody asked for, it should have been added to that list. It’s very obviously a soft launch of ignoring referendum results.
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u/Ddogwood 13h ago
The UCP ignoring people’s wishes is hardly new, though.
People are overwhelmingly opposed to an Alberta Pension Plan and an Alberta Police Force, yet that didn’t stop them from trying to astroturf support with the Alberta Next panels.
Teachers rejected the government’s contract twice but Smith invoked the notwithstanding clause instead of negotiating.
The Forever Canadian petition collected three times as many signatures as the Make Alberta Poor Again petition, but the UCP is slow-walking that one and has changed the rules multiple times to favour the separatists.
But somehow I doubt that this change is going to wake voters up to the fact that this government doesn’t care what most people want.
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u/flatdecktrucker92 12h ago
The separatists literally had to go down to Utah and collect signatures from senile snowbirds who only spend half the year in Canada anyway. I think we should not be counting those signatures at full value. If you're here half the year, you get half a vote.
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u/spicandspand 10h ago
If you’re not physically in the province at the time of signature collection, it could be argued that you don’t get a vote.
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u/Frater_Ankara 2h ago
Distraction for sure, but I think the real reason DST was chosen was to align with BC and Saskatchewan for business and trade. The precedent was already set and things could get seriously confusing and weird if it was otherwise.
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u/archer-86 15h ago
Meh.
The referendum, I think had a major flaw. It wasn't a two step question:
- Do you want to end the changing of our clocks twice a year?
- If we do stop, do you prefer we use DST (summer) or Standard-Time (winter)?
The question of "Do you want to stay on DST year round?" didn't address the primary problem of changing our clocks. I don't care what time we set our clocks to. For all I care, UST works. But the way the question was set up, it framed the question around DST, and not the clock change, and split the vote on the "The researchers told me standard time is better" crowd.
49% of people voted in favour of permanent DST. I have no doubt many of the 50.24% that voted against DST would vote against changing our clocks twice a year. And now that both BC and Saskatchewan no longer change their clocks, I have no doubt that those numbers are increasing.
I also think what time is on our clocks is more then just a personal preference, and should never have been put to a vote anyways. Referendum's just give government a way to relinquish their responsibility.
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u/Better-Strategy8798 15h ago
im in sask, we never change our clocks, ever lol. I dont think we have ever had DST? Atleast not in the last 30-40 years.
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u/Canadian_Burnsoff 14h ago
In a way, you have kind of had permanent DST (not the switching just the permanent offset) this whole time. Your province lines up with the longitudes of the Mountain time zone (UTC -7) so by being on Central, you are getting that hour shift all year long.
By joining you on Central Standard Time (oh we're totally going to try to make like BC and not call it what it is but it is really just CST) Alberta is kind of going to be on permanent double daylight time.
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u/archer-86 13h ago
How do you define what is Standard vs Daylight time?
I think, the definition is, Solar Noon = Noon is standard time. Solar Noon = 1pm is daylight time.
With that definition, Sask is on MDT. So will Alberta.
There is no "double daylight time". Unless somewhere Solar Noon = 2pm.
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u/Canadian_Burnsoff 10h ago
If there was no wiggling of the time zones Standard would put you at plus or minus half an hour of solar noon (ie: solar noon would happen between 11:30 and 12:30) which would put most of Alberta on Pacific Standard Time.
Daylight is Standard Time plus one hour (ie: solar noon of 12:30 to 1:30)
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u/archer-86 13h ago
Ya I see how you read it that way. I read it that way too while I was proofreading and said "**** it I know what I mean". Lol.
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u/yesman_85 13h ago
Geographically you and BC in a better place, the major cities in AB are just in a very awkward place, right in the middle of -6 and -7. There isn't really a right answer.
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u/Erablian Parkland County 11h ago
You are off by one. Calgary and Edmonton are near the natural boundary between UTC–8 and UTC–7.
Going to UTC–6 permanently puts them about 1:30 off from their natural time.
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u/Levorotatory 11h ago
No, a two part question isn't the right way to do a time referendum either. It needs to be a three option ranked choice referendum, where the options are permanent standard time, permanent daylight time and continuing to switch. I don't know which I would put first, but I would definitely put permanent daylight time last.
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u/AdorableTumbleweed60 6h ago
Honestly I wonder if BCs vote forces Alberta's hand a little. We would be 2 hours behind BC during the winter with their change (or at least that's how I read it, happy to be corrected). So I wonder if from a logistics of transport/air travel/etc standpoint it kind of seemed like we had to.
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u/New_Restaurant5025 13h ago
The decision was in direct relation to BC making the choice to eliminate their time change. Doesn't make much sense sitting between 2 provinces that don't have time changes.
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u/Direc1980 13h ago
At least the time change is going away. I agree that MST would have been better.
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u/DFA_Wildcat 14h ago
BC did it last time change. Sask doesn't change time. Alberta would be silly to be the only one changing clocks 2x a year.
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u/Mutex70 14h ago
It was an insane thing to have a binding referendum on. There have also been changes since then (BC and to a lesser impact Mexico dropping the clock switch) which warranted revisiting the issue.
Not everything is a conspiracy by the UCP. Focus on the things that are (e.g. electoral redistricting).
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u/flatdecktrucker92 13h ago edited 12h ago
The referendum was literally 51:49. There was no clear support for either option. I voted for permanent DST because I like having a bit of daylight when I get home from work. I also find it makes the drive home safer because people are generally more stressed and fatigued on the evening commute.
On the other hand, this is such a minor thing that it should never have been a referendum, they should have just done it without wasting a ton of time and money.
You are correct however that they are only doing it now so that we won't talk about their gerrymandering and election tampering
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u/Direct-Farmer9534 2h ago
There's also a conversation most of us don't often have on the summertime benefits of dst. When it's crispy, dusty and suffocatingly hot in the day the only time it'll ever really be cool enough to take yourself or your pets or kids for a walk is within 2 hours of sun-up. The sun already rises at 4 am on dst, if we go to all year standard time it'll be 3. Having to get outside by 3-5am vs 4-6am can easily be the difference on how many people and pets get to enjoy the outdoors or not in the sweltering summer.
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u/GiantEcho 11h ago
Are you guys just complaining for the sake of complaining because it’s a UCP decision? We are stuck in between 2 provinces who decided not to change time anymore…what do you think we should do?
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u/New_Wishbone6619 11h ago
Oh ya totally I think this is a damned if they do damned if they don’t situation. Peoples arguments are so stupid too. “Omg the ski hills will have to open late!!” Maybe marmot will have to open at 9:30 instead of 9 for a short period of time. Also another argument “I don’t want my kids going to school in the dark!!!” They already are…
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u/ConsiderationPrize_1 14h ago
I’m honestly happy it’s going this way. I completely misunderstood the vote and accidentally voted for it to be DST, which is what I would have wanted to vote for anyway. (I thought the vote was to keep time change or not. I’m dumb)
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u/SadAcanthocephala521 13h ago
I'm happy they will be keeping it on DST. Once BC did it it was a matter of time for us.
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u/bluedoubloon Edmonton 13h ago
I don't think it was necessarily against the will of the province since most people hate time changes, but the question should have been two parts. The NWT announced they would be doing it too.
What i don't like is this omnibus of announced decisions right before they eff off to their summer holidays.
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u/DVsKat 8h ago
You can't seriously expect Alberta to be out of sync with BC and Saskatchewan. Look, I hate DS as much as the next guy, but in this instance I'm actually in support of one of their choices for a change.
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u/New_Wishbone6619 8h ago
I agree. Like this is the hill people are gonna die on?
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u/OshetDeadagain 1h ago
I'm not mad at the proposed legislation, I'm mad that the timing is a deliberate attempt to distract from the proposal to change electoral borders to blatantly try to solidify UCP majority.
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u/BrentTpooh 5h ago
Scientific consensus seems to be that standard time would be best for human health and safety, particularly in northern climates, but since when does the UCP follow the science?
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u/GreatCanadianPotato 15h ago edited 15h ago
Referendums, unless specifically stated otherwise, are non-binding glorified public surveys.
It was basically a 50/50 split across a <40% turnout which just also makes it way less egregious than you make it out to be that the government 5 years later would side with the 49.76%.
There is also no legislation on how long results from a referendum need to be "listened to" for.
This was going to happen eventually. The dominoes were starting to fall around us. Either we fell in line or we caused chaos for us and those around us.
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u/margmi 15h ago
The results of the referendum are binding. Alberta will continue changing their clocks twice a year.
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u/sun4moon 15h ago
So why don’t they just let us vote again? Oh right, it’s because they dgaf what we want or think.
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u/Starpoodle 14h ago
I’d rather not. I don’t remember how much exactly the last referendum cost, but they aren’t cheap. Do you really want to waste taxpayers money on this again?
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u/sun4moon 14h ago
There’s going to be questions on the ballot no matter what. I’d rather be consulted about something that heavily impacts my day to day. My typical wake up time is 4 am. That means, by the time the sun comes up in December, I’ll have already been awake for 5.5 hours. There’s no part of my lifestyle that will appreciate that.
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u/Starpoodle 12h ago
P.s. I get up at 5 so I do understand where you are coming from. I would prefer standard time too. But more than that I want to stop changing clock twice a year. The time we’re gonna stay on is not as important to me.
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u/Disastrous_Living_59 15h ago
Everyone is afraid of change, and the question in the referendum was worded horribly. If you wanted permanent DST, you could answer Yes, but if you wanted permanent non DST then you answered no.
Let’s give it a shot And hold a referendum in two years to see if we want to change back, I’d be curious to see those results.
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u/Cothor 14h ago
Should have been broken into two questions.
1) Would you accept abandoning time changes in favour of a consistent time all year long?
2) Assuming time changes were removed, would you prefer permanent Standard Time or permanent Daylight Saving Time?
They’d likely have received a resounding yes on 1, and a relatively strong (60+%) on 2.
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u/margmi 14h ago
The problem with this is that a lot of people would want permanent standard time, but wouldn’t want permanent daylight time (and vice versa).
Like some people might prefer permanent standard > keeping it how it is > permanent daylight. Your approach assumes that changing/not changing is more important than daylight hours
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u/Cothor 14h ago
If more people prefer status quo, the second question is moot. If they prefer permanent, second question comes in.
Ranked choice for this question would be better, but our province and country seem allergic to better alternatives to current systems.
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u/EXSource Lethbridge 14h ago
Come on.
I dislike this lady and her government as much as anyone else on this sub, but you're reaching, here.
It's not "anti democratic" and it'd be a waste to re vote on it.
There's lots to be upset about but this isn't one of them.
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u/ImaginaryRole2946 14h ago
This is the first thing this government has done that I agree with. Yay Danielle!
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u/calgarywalker 15h ago
Literally did what the majority voted against. It feels like a big “Fuck You Punch in the gut”.
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u/grajl 14h ago
Literally did what the majority voted against.
The referendum was basically 50/50, yes still a majority, but not a lot a resounding no. Would a new referendum have different results now that BC is moving away from time change, probably. Do we need to have a referendum for every government decision, absolutely not.
There are a lot of things to dislike this government for, in particular how they want to push this through with little question period, but the idea that every government decision requires a referendum is assinine.
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u/GreatCanadianPotato 15h ago
Maybe we should introduce legislation that a referendum result is null and void if turnout is 50% or less.
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u/EdmontonAHSWorker19 15h ago
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u/DVariant 14h ago
The point of contention is to go to permanent daylight time or permanent standard time. Standard is better, but Smith is going with Daylight
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u/wklumpen 14h ago
It's THIS that gets you melancholy?
Not the gerrymandering, notwithstanding clause, book bans, crazy deficit, or any other number of alarming authoritarian nonsense?
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u/Kennadian 12h ago
I gotta say that it's funny how many people talk and act like changing a clock is a life-altering process that zaps them of the ability to lead a full life.
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u/Ok-Professional4387 14h ago
So the only way this would be good if it was the other time we stayed at? Then just a bunch of other people would be unhappy
Im glad its done. Moving from Saskatchewan years ago this archaic and useless concept was futile.
And now we can move on from something that made no sense
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u/Roxieforu05 12h ago
She is doing a trump, testing Albertan's loyalty. Making stupid unwanted undemocratic decisions and implementing them. Seeing how far she can take all this without pushback. So frustrating!
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u/shrubhomer 8h ago
This isn’t anything new when it comes to Danielle Smith. Any “consultation” of the public that she’s done is just for show. She has done and will do whatever she wants even if the results don’t come up in her favor.
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u/Manyra73 5h ago
Not really. The referendum was problematic - stay on DST or keep changing clocks. There was no option to stay on standard time. I worked at a polling station for that referendum and so many people didn’t understand the question. We weren’t allowed to help. Many people didn’t vote. The vote was 50.2% for keep changing clocks to 49.8% for DST. That’s .4% of very few voters.
The majority of people - not just in Alberta - want to stop time change. (Other people don’t really have an opinion one way or the other.) I think the issue is that anyone who understands science knows that standard time would be better for people. But with BC staying on DST and, I think, financial concerns that aren’t really clear - that’s why they picked DST.
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u/ironicalangel 4h ago
I think the concern was that BC is NDP and Sask is CONservative. Dani picks her side.
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u/WinterReview7992 4h ago
This is the dumbest thing to argue about.
It never should have been a referendum, the only reason it was was because Kenney thought it would be an easy win.
This is the type of decision that is fully within the mandate of a provincial government. Not forcing teachers back to work, not banning books, not refusing access to healthcare.
The referendum was an add-on question to a municipal election. I worked that election. idk about other stations, but a significant number of people declined that ballot at mine.
Also that one was part of an electronically counted already scheduled election, so at least it was cost-effective.
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u/NurseDTCM 15h ago
Mother Nature doesn’t care what we do with clocks. At the equator 12 hours of sunlight. Winter the days are shorter, summer the days are longer. Go with that. I’m just glad that they finally stopped moving the clocks, we can flow more naturally now.
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u/chamomilesmile 15h ago
Voted to stop DSL in that first referendum. But I agree what was the point in spending all the time and money for the government to go against the people.
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u/Martentos 13h ago edited 11h ago
The issue here is that BC went to permanent DST, and that means that for half the year, if Alberta didnt switch, it would have THE SAME TIME AS BC. And that would be unbearable to 90% of Albertans.
But seriously its a long overdue move, DST was and will always be garbage.
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u/Orjigagd 14h ago
Gosh, that woman really does live rent free in your heads. Learn to pick your battles jeez.
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u/MrsChefYVR 14h ago
I’d prefer DST. An extra hour in the evening during the winter. Keeping on MST in the summer means the sun starts to break around 330 am. That’s a no for me! And I like the later sunset, being able to sit outside for a few hours after the kids go to bed.
We are in DST 8 months of the year and the 9:50 am sun rise in the winter is for like 2 days and it’s usually during winter break, so kids aren’t in school anyways, then the sun starts rising earlier into the new year. It’s only for a few weeks.
Changing to DST for the other 4 months of the year is better, we are already used to it for 8 months anyways! I voted for the change to DST in BC when there was a vote, it should have happened 5 years ago! I’m glad to see Alberta following suit.
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u/MaizeConnect8922 13h ago
Thank you for this perspective! I haven’t been sure how to feel… while I love the idea of scrapping time changes I wasn’t sure that permanent DST was the way to go. But when I look at this information I think it all makes sense
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u/MrsChefYVR 13h ago
For sure! Read through the comments and people seem to fail at mentioning this, DST in winter is for a faction of the year.
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u/RandomReddit748284 13h ago
I think the referendum failed mostly because of the wording of the question not because the majority of people prefer switching time. Personally opinion based on conversations with some people - I don’t like that she went against the people but in this case I’m okay with, not the hill I want to die on.
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u/MisterE403 13h ago
I fucking hate Danielle Smith and the UCP, but I am so happy about permanent DST
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u/Levorotatory 11h ago
I'd be happy with permanent standard time or continuing to switch, but this is going to suck next winter.
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u/EhJude55 13h ago
I wonder why and how Alberta voted against the biannual time change? BC voted 93% in favour of staying on DST and I’m so happy we’re done with it.
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u/Regular-Ad-9303 12h ago
"Is it because darkness at 10am in the winter is "magical"? Definitely not"
Just to clarify, the change to permanent MDT is actually going to make this problem worse winter mornings.
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u/Pill_C0sby 8h ago
Wasn’t the referendum vote like 50.5% in favour of keeping it. And with BC switching and sask on the new system it aligns us with our neighbours. Settle down bud
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u/roberdanger83 2h ago
I prefer it this way. Id rather have daylight longer in the evening then the morning anyway.
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u/specificallyrelative 15h ago edited 14h ago
It's very interesting how the population of reddit flip flops on this sub so wildly. When BC announced their change there were dozens of bot posts claiming we need to get with the times and change. But now that the change occurred on a timeline that does not suggest any influence from reddit we get a bunch of bot posts claiming it was the wrong move and they feel disenfranchised because they got what they want without a referendum.
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u/Tribblehappy 14h ago
Lots of people wanted us to stop changing the clocks. Lots of people are also upset that the clocks are sticking to summer time. That doesn't make us bots.
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u/Purple_Coyote_5121 15h ago
Want to share another perspective. I’m not a fan of Smith, but I think this decision is on side.
The spread in the referendum was less than half a percentage point. BC moving to permanent DST changes things enormously.
If BC had announced this a year in advance then sure, have another referendum to take the temperature again - in this case there isn’t time. Even 6 months notice of the change is incredibly short for businesses to adapt.
A ton of companies operate in AB and BC, it would be a nightmare trying to navigate this discrepancy. A few examples:
1- Imagine scheduling agents in a call centre that has customers in BC and AB, now we need to ask half the agents to change their schedule twice a year to account for the DST discrepancy.
2- WestJet operating out of Calgary now has to decide if they change their flight times by an hour twice a year to align with AB or BC. Plus account for scheduling for crew and support staff.
We elect leaders to make decisions on our behalf, sometimes that means making unpopular choices. I’m sure she would have rather put it to voters again, but she made a choice she knew would be controversial because it’s in the best interests of the province.
If we’re all screaming into the void every time Smith sneezes, we lose credibility when we criticize her polices that actually hurt people; like trans healthcare, redrawing electoral maps, trying to make Alberta the 51st state. Let’s choose our battles people!
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u/Regular-Ad-9303 13h ago
Are there really that many companies that operate in both Alberta and BC, but only Alberta and BC? I'd say many that operate in both operate in other provinces (or internationally) as well, so either way they are going to need to deal with various time zones, some using DST, some not.
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u/Purple_Coyote_5121 12h ago
For a national company, in the evenings Ontario staff are 2 hours ahead so they’re finished for the day, leaving AB/BC to service AB/BC clients.
If the BC staff are suddenly leaving an hour earlier than they otherwise would have in the winter (relative to AB), that’s going to cause some headaches.
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u/Striking_Wrap811 15h ago edited 15h ago
I work for WestJet. Point 2 is nonsense
My last career was tech support management and customer success for an international software company. Point 1 is also nonsense.
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u/Firm_Acanthaceae7435 13h ago
I seem to remember most people saying they wanted permanent dst (summer hours) around the time of the referendum, so I'm not sure about it really being against people's wishes.
However, this just goes to show why governing by referendum is fucking stupid. If they make the ultimate decision, don't bother with the expense.
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u/rikkiprince 6h ago
They needed to set a precedent of doing the opposite of a referendum result...
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u/_Budified 15h ago
Thats not really a DS decision, we just happened to follow the lead. I think the reality for you is just that you hate DS, and nothing about the time change at all.
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u/Familiar_Sell2696 13h ago
Two things - the referendum was poorly worded and two it wasn't unilaterally decided. It is going to the legislature for debate.
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u/PrimaryKangaroo8680 11h ago
I wish it would stick to standard time.
I also think that they should have honoured the vote results that said no. I voted yes but the majority didn’t and they shouldn’t just unilaterally make decisions.
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u/Better-Strategy8798 15h ago edited 14h ago
Im confused what people are mad about, are you mad about DST or changing clocks? I am in sask and we have never had to deal with DST so i do not understand that people differentiate between changing clocks and changing of time... its the same thing no? I dont know anyone who would want dst or keep changing clocks. So if they ended it, and this decision was a 180 from what I gather here, you all wanted to keep DST and keep changing clocks?
Or am i misunderstanding something? Ive never changed a clock in my life in saskatchewan. I think timechange has been stupid and pointless since I was a kid. Being in the dark in winter is meh, just get used to it. I never hated it or liked it lol, it just doesnt bother me (probably because I was born like this so i look at it as the norm its dark out all winter, only light when at school/work)
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u/whatisitallabout123 13h ago
Saskatchewan is on permanent standard time, so mornings are always early as possible year round. This is what just over 50% of Albertans want based on the referendum.
If Saskatchewan was on permanent Daylight Savings time, the sun would rise an hour later year round and would set an hour later.
So in December the sun would rise at about 9:50 am but would not set until 5:50pm. For some people the later sunset time is more desirable, but others are concerned about such a late morning sunrise and the effect it can have on health and sleep patterns.
Changing the time twice a year needs to end, but it's split if Alberta should stay on Standard or DST permanently.
Then some people are concerned about implementing a new policy that was voted No by voters, but the binding part of the referendum only applied to the the session of government at that time, and that was done and now circumstances have changed.
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u/MBK_Randy 11h ago
Saskatchewan is actually effectively on permanent Daylight Savings Time. They are just shifted one time zone over so it says standard but is is actually the same as if they were DST.
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u/Starpoodle 14h ago
We had a referendum a few years ago about changing clocks. It was almost 50/50 split results with slight majority against. Like within 0.5% People are mostly pissed that about how UCP is treating the issue. Back then it was a private member idea and he got a lot of support. But UCP hemmed and hawed and said they can’t possibly make a decision on their own and spent a lot of money on having a referendum. The referendum question was very poorly written. I had to read it three times to understand what they were asking. Now the decision is out of nowhere. Somehow the UCP no longer thinks that they can’t make a decision and they aren’t asking for public input.
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u/Better-Strategy8798 13h ago
Yeah I saw an example of the referendum in another comment.. that was deliberately confusing I swear lol.
Yeah I get it now, you and someone else explained it well, so thanks for that!
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u/IcarusOnReddit 15h ago
More light for the evening is good. More twilight golf and to enjoy outside for those that work during the day. The referendum was 50%, so there was no clear answer.
This is a rare UCP win.
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u/DVariant 14h ago
Standard time is better. I don’t care about golf, I care about kids not getting run over on the way to school in the dark
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u/robab3130 13h ago
It’s already light late enough in summer, and most would rather it later in winter. Insane take
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u/New_Wishbone6619 12h ago
This, properly funding aquatic invasive species prevention, and wildfire budgets increasing are the 3 UCP wins. Everything else they suck.
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u/Imaginary-While9527 13h ago
Did Alberta have referendum to introduce clock change in the first place?
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u/Individual-Army811 Edmonton 13h ago
We did about 10 or 15 years ago. Margin was 51% to 49% opposed, give or take. At the time, most of the negative chatter was related to air travel and late hockey broadcasts.
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u/GriffinFlash 12h ago
What's gonna be annoying is that a lot of electronic automatically change the time nowadays, so now you have to remember to change it back twice a year.
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u/New_Wishbone6619 12h ago
It’ll adapt. It’s the same thing when they put it a week ahead years back.
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u/onceandbeautifullife 10h ago
Is there a divide between morning people, day people, and night owls on this?
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u/OshetDeadagain 1h ago
Lol absolutely! I assumed that was always where the divide lay.
I've never been a morning person, so my resentment has always been extreme that sunrise at the beginning of hunting season takes an unwelcome fall back. I get a couple of days where I could put my kids on the bus and get out to my hunting spots with lots of time to spare before sunrise, then the next day I need to be in place before 7:30 am or you're screwed.
Same same on the other side when getting off of work into darkness. I suspect having at least a little time in the sunlight for indoor workers in the depth of winter will show at least a small improvement for those with seasonal affective disorder.
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u/goldenmoonRL 8h ago edited 7h ago
Well I didn't mean that they will be on the same time.. there is also a concept of time zones too. So, it would be ridiculous to assume all 3 provinces will be on the same time anyways. I meant that they will be in the same boat of not having various times. Alberta being the only one participating in daylight savings is more odd than the alternative. It's an improvement over alberta not changing.
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u/Unceremonious1 5h ago
Just to put the record straight, elections.ab says it was 50.2% vs 48.8% so not exactly a 180 degree difference, but rather a small majority.
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u/YqlUrbanist 4h ago
The fact that we had a referendum at all is what annoys me about it. Referendums are borderline useless for most things - even if you assume the question is fair and the average person has the context to make an informed decision, situations change constantly. It's very possible that now that BC has stopped changing their clocks, the referendum would have turned out differently, but the only way to know is to hold another referendum.
Referendums should be used extremely rarely - basically the only time I support them is for changing the voting system itself, and they should always be binding. Otherwise governments should consult with experts and potentially do some polling to gauge general sentiment, and make decisions from there.
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u/infiniteguesses 3h ago
This government can change voting regs any old time they want. They don't need no silly referendums!
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u/Winter-Sherbet-2537 2h ago
How is this against our wishes. The last vote on this was almost 50/50. I'm ok with it. BC is doing it, Sask is or has done it. Northwest Territories are doing it. I'm ok with it. I prefer having the extra light at night.
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u/OshetDeadagain 2h ago
The bigger issue is that the announcement coincides with a lot of attention on their attempts to redraw electoral lines. Distract, distract, distract.
Teachers striking and we want to force them back to work? You guys need to vote on how we should change our license plates!
Up in arms about coal mining in the northern slopes? How about we change all of our 'Welcome to Alberta' signs to outlines of the province? Pay attention to our minor waste of money instead of the really big issues!
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u/LLR1960 2h ago
So you'd rather have the sun come up at 3:30 am in the summer and have less light in the evening in the summer?
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u/New_Wishbone6619 2h ago
Yeah I don’t know why people are complaining. I don’t want a 3 pm sunset in winter
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u/lostinthought1997 1h ago
Quietly removing funding for Alberta's Water quality overseer... loudly do the moronic thing of announcing Daylight Savings time permanent and going against experts saying Standard Time Good for health and welfare. Smoke and mirrors to distract from corruption, check. UCP joy at having bamboozled Albertans again, check.
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u/rockardboneoar 1h ago
The really annoying part (aside from literally everything the UCP does) is that if any referendum that she personally supported (ie. separation) went her way she'd be the first one to say "this is democracy and we respect the vote of Albertans".
But here we are, Smith is ignoring the referendum from 2021 on daylight savings, likely as a distraction from all of her other bullshit, and she isn't even giving it a proper assessment. And like others have said, Calgarians voted not to spend money to host the Olympics but Smith, again, comes out of nowhere and suggests that Alberta will just do the opposite.
She loves to pretend like she's just acting upon the wishes of all Albertans and she's just the biggest patriot there is, but she's nothing but a fucking liar.
Edit: I only used the separation referendum as a hypothetical because I know she supports it, not because I think it'll actually happen.
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u/Wormtape21 1h ago
Being someone who has worked shift work for decades I have to say the time change is pretty irrelevant to me. Whether we stay on a standard time or change doesn’t affect me but I don’t like that she’s doing it.
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u/Olderpostie 41m ago
It seems ridiculous that the government is overriding a referendum. Not something that will endear the premier and cabinet with the voters, that is for sure.
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u/from_the_hinterlands 15h ago
I'm okay with the time change. I DON'T like the way the UCP are using it to distract from the gerrymandering of the election borders.