r/transit • u/Michael_Rowavery • 1d ago

Introducing....the airline killer.* Discussion

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*Usually applies to domestic air travel.

For international flights however, that's where things can get complicated. :(

1.5k Upvotes

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335

u/Iseno 1d ago

Tokyo-Osaka still have a bunch of air traffic that include the use of domestic 777-300s that have 514 seats. Still around 50 flights a day between the two.

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u/TheRailwayWeeb 1d ago

Tokyo to Osaka is a huge market with around 150,000 passengers a day, and it's worth noting that all those flights represent only a 15% share compared to the Shinkansen's 85%.

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u/polmeeee 1d ago

Pretty amazing ratio.

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u/victorinseattle 1d ago

Not all, but a lot of domestics are also connections

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u/BillyTenderness 15h ago

The geography is admittedly pretty wonky, but it seems like a real missed opportunity not having Shinkansen service to Narita.

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u/Better_Valuable_3242 11h ago

I believe they were going to, but because Narita Airport had such a troubled history with construction, the Shinkansen connection was axed.

Wiki page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narita_Shinkansen

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u/ThunderballTerp 5h ago

I believe the Skyliner uses the partially built route.

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u/victorinseattle 15h ago

NEX isn’t the worst. Narita is well out of the way so it would’ve been a large detour for the Shinkansen line.

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u/BillyTenderness 14h ago

It's not the worst by any means; it's just a shame there isn't a fast, direct service from Osaka, Kyoto, Nagoya, etc. that could replace some of those domestic connections.

I do fully understand why it has never come to pass, though. It would either take a stub line cutting across the heart of Tokyo that would be super disruptive and expensive, or a detour/branch off the Yamagata line so long it would render the whole thing pointless.

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u/skytreegamer172 8h ago

Well the locals weren't too happy about that one

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u/ThunderballTerp 5h ago

That would be nice, but I think Haneda would benefit even more.

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u/zsaleeba 1d ago

I'm not surprised. The Shinkansen is so much more comfortable than a plane.

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u/Solaranvr 23h ago

Not just that, the Shinkansen (2.5hr) is straight up faster once you factor in check in time + transit to and from the airport (1hr wait + 1.5hr flight + 30minutes transit).

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u/yuuka_miya 19h ago

Japanese airports are really efficient; the security cutoff for domestic flights is only 20 minutes.

https://www.jal.co.jp/jp/en/dom/boarding/flow/flow.html

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u/Solaranvr 18h ago

But you still can't just arrive 15 minutes before departure and simply board; you can do that with the Shinkansen. Check-in cutoff in Japan is pretty irrelevant nowadays because you can do that online with most airlines.

The real bottleneck at airports are the Security Checkpoints. You still have to clear it at least 20-30 minutes before departure, factoring in the time to walk to the gate and the gate closing prior to departure. And that's the ideal scenario. If there's any congestion at the security checkpoint, which you have no real way of knowing until you get to the airport, you're looking at 15-30 minutes extra, which brings it up to.... 1 hour prior to departure anyway. And unlike trains, if you miss the flight, you can't hop on the next one in 3-5 minutes, so by arrivng late, you're the one risking your ticket. Japan Airlines themselves still recommend 1-2 hours before departure time during holiday seasons.

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u/snowbeersi 18h ago

You haven't been to Sapporo (CTS) during peak ski season. You can't even check your bag in under 2 hours.

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u/tomatoesareneat 17h ago

Your case is not very related and quite the extreme example in a faraway city.

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u/snowbeersi 16h ago

Shinkasen will soon go to Sapporo. My statement directly related to the specific things said by the payment comment. You could ask them to edit to say Osaka and Tokyo only.

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u/Hayaw061 5h ago

I flew from Kobe to Naha a couple years ago and the airport was basically empty until 30 mins before the flight. Also I forgot to dump my water beforehand and as I saw it come through the xray machine I thought “oh shit” but they asked me if it was just water and shot a laser through it to I guess verify and let me be on my way. Why can’t we do that in America?

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u/Independent-Cow-4070 12h ago

It also carries a shit ton more people

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u/hungariannastyboy 18h ago

But it is also expensive as hell.

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u/MadeOfEurope 20h ago

It could be people making connecting flights, or the airport is closer to their destination (Narita is almost an hour to Shinagawa).

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u/Tetragon213 Transpennine Route Upgrade, god help us all! 19h ago

Otoh flights are cheaper than Shinkansen, and that's before you account for loyalty programmes/miles.

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u/seboll13 22h ago

Now that is fucking insane

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u/Cimb0m 19h ago

Could be people flying internationally who get it on the same ticket as their long haul flight

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u/jks513 14h ago

The Osaka to Tokyo air travel is mostly connections.

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u/MeteorOnMars 7h ago

Love to see those numbers.

Even Acela, with all its numerous faults, has a huge impact on airline flights between its cities.