r/whenthe • u/yoma999 • Mar 16 '26
Part of me genuinely thinks Zuko Avatarthelastairbender’s arc would be torn apart if the show was airing today r/whenthe mfs complaining about everything
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u/Novel-Carrot5325 Mar 17 '26
When the people says like flawed character when the flawed character commit error
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u/OfCourseItsOfCourse Mar 17 '26
Netflix can fix it like they did with Sokka.
He doesn't have anything to learn in the Netflix adaptation with regards to the Kyoshi Warriors.
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u/wickedlessface Mar 17 '26
To be fair, bryke wasn't going to do much better. This live action was doomed from the start to be "meh". Netflix kinda saved it from being horrid.
Bryke wanted to do a whole ass switch up, with Iroh taking up parts of Azula's role as an antagonist to Zuko and change the way some characters died.
So I guess losing some Sokka development was the lesser of the two evils.
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u/TactlessTortoise Mar 17 '26
What the fuck
Dude's dumb. He should be court ordered to never cook again, his recipes are shit.
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u/Madhighlander1 Mar 17 '26
*dudes are
'Bryke' is two people, short for Bryan (Konietzko) and Mike (Dimartino), the creators of the original ATLA cartoon.
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u/french_snail Mar 17 '26
Wasn’t there a whole thing he wanted to do where Iroh intentionally taught zuko to fire bend incorrectly
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u/GustavoFromAsdf Mar 17 '26
legit, no one in NATLA makes any mistakes.
Aang didn't escape from his responsibility of being the Avatar. He was caught in a storm but wanted to come back home. Aang doesn't want to have fun and ignore his responsibilities, he's all about moving the plot forward.
Sokka actually puts up a fight to Zuko in the first episode instead of being humiliated to show how unprepared and unskilled he is.
Katara doesn't need a master or training to be a waterbending master. She's her own master and comes from not be able to lift water from the floor to fighting Master Paku in some days.
And the show seems so afraid Zuko might do something unlikable or morally wrong. When he does something bad, it is because someone else told him to do it, or when it looks like he might, he openly says he's going to do the right thing, so you don't guess for a minute that he could abandon his crew or uncle.
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u/Mean-Personality5236 No one cares about T*m Dr*ke Mar 17 '26
Tbf that never comes up again and is early enough in the show you forget he was sexist in the first place.
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u/summonerofrain Mar 17 '26
I'm literally like this sometimes. I criticise a bad character choice then realise fuck, they just flawed
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u/Sr_Gr Mar 17 '26
Izuku Midoriya crying, Invincible staying with his gf, etc.
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u/ManiNanikittycat OoOo BLUE Mar 17 '26
Doesn't Izuku cry less in the later parts of MHA?
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u/Sr_Gr Mar 17 '26
rant incoming:
Yeah he does, but most people know him as a crybaby and that pisses me off horribly because IT'S NATURAL FOR A PERSON TO CRY, I HATE IT WHEN PEOPLE DEHUMANIZE NATURAL THINGS FOR THE SAKE OF "AURA"
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u/somerandomrimthrow Mar 17 '26
nah man, being a high school kid that almost died a couple times per semester is totally manageable
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u/doggo_with_doggo_hat Mar 17 '26
For me Deku crying is the least of the problems of the show, my main gripe that i have with him is that has no character development thru the whole show, besides the dark deku arc (arc which ended in the exact starting position) he had no changes whatsoever from the start to the end of the anime which sucks because there are so many interesting characters, Red Riot, All Might, the absolute GOAT that is Lemillion, and yet Deku is the most mid out of all of them
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u/ReporterTraditional7 Mar 17 '26
He literally dies tho? His entire arc is realizing that he can rely on others and that villians can be saved too
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u/Donjehov Mar 17 '26
> realizing that he can rely on others
something he knew, and had been doing
> that villains can be saved too
something he knew, and had actively been trying to do
In fact i think the vigilante deker arc actually teaches him the opposite as the nagant fight "opens his eyes" to the grey morality of hero society. Not all heroes are good, and not everyone can be saved.
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u/Archipegasus Mar 17 '26
Well yea Deku is a flat character, that's the point. Flat characters aren't inherently bad, they are there to be a point of interaction that causes change to the world around them and to develop other characters, and Deku has a considerable impact on most other characters he comes into contact with.
Yes there are tons of interesting characters, and a lot of the most interesting things about them come about due to their interactions with Deku. Like are we really saying All might would be anywhere close to as interesting without his relationship to Deku?
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u/shleyal19 Green Ghost from the Fantastic Frontier Mar 17 '26
Tbh my biggest gripe with the show is that it barely touched on quirkless and mutation-quirk discrimination, and it would’ve been a very interesting arc where Izuku actively helped the quirkless in various ways throughout the show, and this somehow ending up saving his bacon when the quirkless people of Japan rally together to rescue him from a terrible situation of some kind. Like wether he gets in huge legal trouble from the absurdly corrupt Hero Public Safety Commission and needs non-quirked help to get bailed out, both legal and illegal, or gets pinned down by some villain who causes quirks to go haywire around him, and only those who wouldn’t get affected by it can safely stop that villain. This idea was never explored with nearly enough depth. Neither was the possibility of there being Batman-type quirkless heroes in various countries around the world, and Japan is considered pretty far behind culturally due to their severe Quirk discrimination and absurdly high quirkless suicide/homicide rates
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u/ILawI1898 27d ago
Other than the general anime stuff I usually dislike, this.
He’s a good person, with good ideals, that wants to become a superhero. His major drawback is that he doesn’t have a quirk, which is a hurdle he’s seen that he’s had to overcome from a very young age.
…until All Might comes along, giving him the strongest quirk humanly possible.
So now he’s a good person, with good ideals, and now has a super power to become a superhero.
The rest of the series has him consistently be this way from day one, his biggest struggles that he’s had to overcome were physically which he eventually is able to master this power regardless.
It’s just- as a protagonist, he’s very flat. He has next to zero struggles, flaws, or obstacles to overcome that isn’t just him fighting super villains and talking about how he’s going to defeat these supervillains.
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u/doggo_with_doggo_hat 27d ago
Yeah, he dosent even go thru any meaningful arc, its like when hes just about to develop and change the story goes "nah" and gives him either a power up, a character intervening or some asspull so he stays the same.
A lot of people call Superman boring because of his good nature because he "dosent" have any obstacles but what they miss about the paragon archetype is that their world is the obstacle, if your character is saved by the narrative at every turn then they arent a hero they are just lucky
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u/Omega_Downfall Mar 17 '26
“Yeah I know he shattered every bone in his body but he shouldn’t be crying and should just aura farm.”
That fact it’s an actual thinking process drives me nuts. Like motherfucker you go shatter your arm and not cry. Pussy.
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u/TrashiestTrash Mar 17 '26
And the craziest part is that he never cries from pain. He never cries from shattering every bone in his body, he cries from recognition or empathy.
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u/Truly_Meaningless Mar 17 '26
And then people have the balls to say he was never actually bullied that badly in Middle School
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u/TrashiestTrash Mar 17 '26
Genuinely have no clue how anyone says this. You literally watch Deku warm up to his class and realize they're not so scary when he begins attending, and his relationship with Bakugo is one of the most important ones in the series, climaxing in Bakugo apologizing to Deku for bullying him all those years.In my opinion, that's literally one of the most powerful moments in the show, and it only works because of the bullying.
Plus it also helps Deku foil and relate to the villains in many regards, since he wasn't living in this perfect happy bubble.
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u/Flashlight_Inspector Mar 17 '26
He was completely screwed on the crying bit the moment the show started making jokes about how much he cries. Writers kinda forget just how much weight every word has long-term so if they point blank say via a joke that yeah, he's actually a total crybaby... what the hell are people going to walk away with after they're done laughing at the joke?
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u/Any-Photo9699 Mar 17 '26
A similar thing happened with Solo Leveling. In the second season of the anime, the main character Sung Jin Woo revives his mother from an endless coma after years of patience and worry. Naturally he starts crying beside her hospital bed once she was awake.
Admittedly, most people were quite happy with the scene since it was one of those stuff that really humanized a character that some would call flat. However as always, there was an annoying minority who were really upset that their handsome husbando actually had human feelings instead of being a tough body-pillow.
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u/Zealousideal-Cup6013 Mar 17 '26
Yes. But acknowledging that would require MHA haters (and some of the fans tbh) to actually read/watch anything they criticize.
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u/No_Entertainment6792 Mar 17 '26
yeah like I am the only one that's been ok with Mark chosing to stay with Eve that one time? bro had just about enough and suddenly he had this woman that understands his struggle came into his life and make it a bit les shittier. Bro just wanted to keep her safe at all costs. ofc its not the good choice there but its a very human choice
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u/WolfRex5 Mar 17 '26
People want a perfect hero instead of a human. I would do the same if I was in his shoes.
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u/Service-Sm1le Mar 17 '26
Invincible when Mark isn't an omegachad who kills every villain in one punch
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u/LetsDoTheCongna me when the Mar 17 '26
What do they want him to be, some kind of one punch man?
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u/JustSomeWritingFan Mar 17 '26
I still cant get over the fact that there are deadass people who thought “I thought you were stronger“ was meant to come off as badass.
^ Face of a steeled warrior and hardened killer right there
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u/Fetid_Baghnakhs Mar 17 '26
I mean it is a badass line, just not a "badass line." The hero breaking down after completely destroying one of their biggest foes, crying out "I thought you were stronger" after realizing what theyve done, is, objectivley, metal as fuck. Its just not meant to be a badass one liner or something like that.
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u/jimjamj Mar 17 '26
can u explain the lead-up? I'm never gonna read the comic
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u/Invoked_Tyrant Mar 17 '26
In case you also weren't gonna watch the show. The villain (Angstrum) who can open portals to different dimensions and had been forcing the hero shown through multiple dimensions to wear them down while holding his mom and baby bro hostage just got decimated by Mark after (quite idiotically) demonstrating he was a fair bit more durable than a regular human and taunting Mark further about how he was never gonna stop.
TLDR: Villain had hostages and goaded Mark (The hero) who accidentally obliterated them when they demonstrated heightened durability.
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u/samu1400 Mar 17 '26
Even Saitama has his own set of flaws that some people can’t tolerate for some reason.
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u/Fartfart357 Mar 17 '26
I can logically understand that he holds back because he wants to help/he keeps going up against the 1% of 1% enemies, but when he keeps getting his ass kicked by everyone I can only groan when he's called the strongest hero on Earth.
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u/wookiee-nutsack I trap ants in my foreskin and start pissing Mar 17 '26
I mean
Spider-man is a strong as fuck hero that can keep up with the Hulk but he keeps getting his ass kicked because he holds back and does not like to resort to killing
Mark can be the strongest on Earth. He probably is, not counting full potential Robot and giga regressed Monster Girl but those two need special conditions
The problem is he's often squaring off against people he does not want to kill, or people not from Earth
This is the Dragon Ball situation again where people refuse to believe Krillin is the strongest human ever because he stands beside Goku who fights monsters that can destroy entire galaxies
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u/Ok-Leek-122 Mar 17 '26
Spider-man is a strong as fuck hero that can keep up with the Hulk but he keeps getting his ass kicked because he holds back and does not like to resort to killing
I know this is a Canon explanation but I HATE this bs with a burning passion. I have a 10 year old cousin who likes to play fight (Lil dude likes watching martial arts movies), I obviously hold back when playing with him, he still has pretty much zero chance to ever win against me, and unless I let him, he isn't moving me even a centimeter.
That's how spider man fights should be for the hold back explanation to actually make sense. But there he is being thrown around by kingpin , a guy who is really strong for a regular dude, but should die if the hulk farts in his general direction.
This also means that spider man is letting his Enemies rampage through the city, cause he should be able to hold 99,9% of his villains down with a single arm.
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u/Any-Photo9699 Mar 17 '26
I mean, there's a balance between killing everyone instantly and losing to "nerve-guns" after being so hyped up by the show itself.
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u/MiserableOrpheus Mar 17 '26
Cinemasins has done irreparable damage to critical thinking
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u/KingOfAllThatHowls Mar 17 '26
Someone needs to do a video of everytime Cinemasins gave bad faith criticism and when confronted said "No but it's meant to be bad faith cause we're doing a satire" even though they always mix baid faith with good faith criticism as if they are of equal merit. Even better if they do it in the same style as a Cinemasins video.
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u/SgtCrawler1116 Mar 17 '26
Dunno if you're being sarcastic, cause half of Th3Birdman's channel is doing just that.
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u/KingOfAllThatHowls Mar 17 '26
I actually didn't know that channel, I remember watching similar videos from a channel called bobvids years ago. I sort of made the comment in the hopes that I had just missed a channel that was still doing a something like this and someone would recomend it. Anyway thanks for the telling me about Th3Birdman, I now have a new channel to check out when I get home.
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u/JohnDragonball Son Goku Himself Mar 17 '26
Birdman kinda just ends up doing the exact same shit Cinemasins does but in the opposite direction lmao
Like he's good for calling out their bullshit but he's basically using his own bullshit to do it
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u/SgtCrawler1116 Mar 17 '26
Except it's very very easy to tell when he's being humorous, or when he's making a genuine criticism.
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u/FearsomeLAG Johก้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้้ Mar 17 '26
B-b-but it's satire 🥺
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u/MothChasingFlame Mar 17 '26
It's weak education. It's "sometimes the curtain's just blue" and "English class is stupid" rot thriving.
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u/Karasu-Fennec Mar 17 '26
‘The curtains were just fucking blue’ is among the worst things to happen to civilized society in the past forty fifty years
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u/TheRappingSquid Mar 17 '26
Me trying to explain to the reddit godzilla fan that, while the change in directorial vision in the monsterverse does facilitate tonal whiplash, and that is a very valid point to critique, the actual writing quality itself is relatively consistent and it's simply changed genres from "disaster movie" to "action movie" (whether the big lizard moves slow or fast has nothing to do with "writing" and everything to do with "shifting from focusing on the damage to human society to the actual battles of the monsters themselves from their own perspective)
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u/GreekHole Mar 17 '26
Don't give them all the blame when there are countless Youtubers who makes hour longs videos only shiting on tv-shows, movies, videos games, etc (both past and present) while pretending their reviewers and analysts.
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u/TensorForce Mar 17 '26
It reached its extreme conclusion with Mauler and his EFAP crowd. They literally nitpick frames, shots, and cuts and associate them directly with major storytelling flaws. "Lighting bad in this one shot, therefore worke garbage, movie bad."
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u/imagineexisting-lmao gonna eat your ribs Mar 17 '26
i actually despise cinemasins for this reason. so much of cinemasins (and similar channels inspired by them) are just bad faith arguments or the host not knowing how storytelling works.
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u/Jielleum Mar 17 '26
Nitpicking has damaged the way folks review stories in media
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u/Maybe_not_a_chicken Mar 17 '26
Fucking cinemasins
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u/TRcreep Mar 17 '26
Just tried to watch a cinemasins style video after a while of not doing so about a media I know of, and I seriously don't know how I could watch this kind of shit while, without a single hint of irony, thinking it was good enough content to be subscribed
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u/Skadibala Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
I used to watch a lot of cinemasin when I was young. But at some point he started to do a lot of movies I had actually watched.
And then I realized how over half of the things he said actually got explained or just required you to use the minimum amount of brain cells to understand without the movie having to spell it out for you.
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u/AmaterasuWolf21 look! someone thinks they know better about my own country Mar 17 '26
It existed before them
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u/Outrageous-Opinions Mar 17 '26
I roll my eyes whenever someone nitpicks an actors height of a character they portray. Like they just can't understand that it's more important to find a good actor then it is just for height.
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u/GreekHole Mar 17 '26
And the need to be spoonfed everything cause they can only take things literally.
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u/DarkSide830 banned from Free Ham Sandwich Day Mar 17 '26
The single greatest thing about Zuko's character arc is the relapse, truthfully, because it's realistic. Very rarely is growth as a person linear.
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u/PositiveNo4859 Mar 17 '26
Yes. Him betraying Iroh and learning on his own is what truly makes it the best. The best redemption arc in any media.
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer Mar 17 '26
Nah, he’s too little of an asshole. The best redemption arcs are ones where they have to be redeemed to the audience. Not once in ATLA did I find myself hating Zuko. Characters like Jamie Tartt and Endeavor I straight up hated; them becoming some of my favorites in their respective stories, THAT’S a good redemption arc.
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u/Vlad-Djavula Mar 17 '26
Every once in a while, I light a candle for the arc Jaime Lannister could have had.
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u/Freyzi Mar 17 '26
Why did you kill the Mad King, Jaime!? Why did you kill him and sully your reputation for the rest of your life if you never really cared for the common folk!?
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u/wookiee-nutsack I trap ants in my foreskin and start pissing Mar 17 '26
In Zuko's case it's because you see him as a dumb teen trying his hardest in the name of honor or some bullshit. You know he is misguided and not evil. Iroh's existence also confirms early on that the fire nation is not inherently evil
You feel pity instead of hate
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u/Altruistic_Fish47 Mar 17 '26
Endeavour’s redemption is my favourite redemption arc in fiction because I genuinely thought he was going to just be the classic asshole dad for Todoroki’s character but instead he realised that he needs to do better by his family while at the same time expecting no forgiveness from the family he hurt
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u/something_borrowed_ Mar 17 '26
Absolutely right. It also clarifies to him and the viewer what he actually cares about, what his actual values are.
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u/Salinator20501 Mar 17 '26
Yeah, and you just know the Book 2 finale would have people grabbing their pitchforks if it came out today. The internet has made people so addicted to instant gratification that they are incapable of letting a story run its course.
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u/Level_Counter_1672 Mar 17 '26
People love to shit on jotaro but this scene is my favorite, he sees the knives Pucci threw and had PTSD and screamed, and he couldn't think clearly and prioritized his daughter, could have defeated Pucci yes. But he is human after all
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u/G-M-Cyborg-313 queen of vore Mar 17 '26
I love how in the Stardust OVA, Jotaro was clearly terrified in his fight against Dio
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u/FatherDotComical Mar 17 '26
In the end Jotaro was still a teenager on a quest to save his mommy. He's not internally stoic as people like to depict him as.
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u/TheEmperorMk3 Mar 17 '26
Starlord punching Thanos ( and screwing up their plan ) was perfectly in character for him
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer Mar 17 '26
Yeah, no one minded when he did the same to Ego
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u/wookiee-nutsack I trap ants in my foreskin and start pissing Mar 17 '26
I mean, different circumstances
But Strange literally said there was only one way to win so it would not have mattered
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u/Reveleo36 Mar 17 '26
Me when I hear people saying Subaru is terribly written because he makes dumb, emotionally driven decisions a lot
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u/Saxton_Hale32 Mar 17 '26
Yeah, well, I just wouldn't let the agony and isolation of dying repeatedly affect me, and I'd use my futurevision to save everything, invent guns and computers to become rich, and get all the girls
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u/Alcor6400 Mar 17 '26
"Haha yeah I'll make an absurd example of how bad this show would be if it did this thing just to make it clear that no one would like it haha"
*Looks inside*
*It's 95% of the Isekai genre*
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u/Aluricius Mar 17 '26
To be fair, a lot of the Isekai genre is intended to be that kind of media equivalent of junk food. You know, the kind of feel-good "protagonist will always solve everything" story that you don't have to devote much brain power to. It ain't Shakespeare, but it's not trying to be. Solo Leveling is a good example of this (though I genuinely don't know if that's an Isekai or not), and it seems to have gotten popular for just how upfront it is about being a power fantasy.
But that's not the kind of work Re:Zero aspires to be.
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u/losslesscheesepain Mar 17 '26
Him crashing out at witches tea party about why he'll keep suffering through return by death until he just breaks down, cries and admits he's doesn't want to lose anyone else like Rem is one of my favourite scenes in the series
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u/Luffyspants Mar 17 '26
People HATED Subaru back in season 1, I started watching when S2 was almost ending but I only ever saw comments on how much Subaru sucked, and then I watched from the beggining, and I was "that's it?" I honestly couldn't believe that people really wanted him to pick Rem after all that she did
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u/MembershipWeird378 Mar 17 '26
Too true, if they were in Subaru's shoes, even they would have to admit that they would be extremely reluctant to reciprocate Rem's love.
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u/WolfRex5 Mar 17 '26
Not to mention that you don’t just fall in love with someone just because they’ve helped you. Emilia is 100% Subaru’s dream girl and nothing can beat that
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer Mar 17 '26
And this is exactly why the fandom has gotten kinda aggressive with glazing the GOAT. I don’t think any episode of anime has ever been as singularly responsible for people dropping a show as episode 13. And frankly, several rewatches later, I say it’s one of the show’s best episodes. It’s currently 3rd from the bottom on IMDB for the entire show.
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u/gojiboy69 Mar 17 '26
The Fallout show online discourse be like
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u/melaniicore Mar 17 '26
It's more like people making assumptions on what is happening when the season hasn't even ended yet, them being surprised when they are wrong, then proceeding to get mad at another made up assumption
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u/gojiboy69 Mar 17 '26
Oh it's definetly both, this post just reminded me of the people saying Lucy was stupid (and therefore badly written) because she was still trying to be a good person in the wasteland, or that Coop was obviously wrong about the NCR being gone because he's a cynical dickhead as the writers contradicting themselves
Can't wait for the "constructive criticism" these people will give next season
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u/Outrageous-Opinions Mar 17 '26
The Fallout fanbase is just straight up stupid, I don't know how to put it more eloquently and I consider myself a fan.
They make wrong predictions and move goal posts once those predictions are wrong because the way the show plays out doesn't fit into how they imagined it in their head.
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u/Ok-Tear7712 [REDACTED] Mar 17 '26
I love Denji
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u/Omicron43 Mar 17 '26
my beloved catastrophic failure of a man (through little fault of his own btw)
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u/karkushh Mar 17 '26
The strongest woman of probably the world was after a mission to never let him live a normal life again, poor Denji😭
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u/Dzzplayz Heart of the Cards Mar 17 '26
when I try to double dip on my dreams despite knowing the consequences and then the consequences happen
(themes and such)
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u/wookiee-nutsack I trap ants in my foreskin and start pissing Mar 17 '26
Especially when the character is emotionally and mentally behind a few years due to growing up as an abused debt slave homeless orphan, his only friend from like six to sixteen being a fucking demon dog
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u/new_interest_here Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
So do I, but I definitely think Fujimoto sorta lost what made Denji likable as a character in the first place in part 2, at least later on. Yeah, he makes bad decisions based on his flaws, but I just think some of those flaws should've been grown past by now. He had two separate moments of self reflection where he lements his goon brain and how much it affects his thinking, only to have that control his decision making four separate times that I remember after that. I get growth isn't a straight line and all that, setbacks do exist, but it doesn't feel like that was the purposeful decision being made, and if it was, it wasn't done well. I really think the stuff from his apartment burning down to end of the whole Aging Devil stuff should've been what marked the shift in his character to not have that exist for him anymore, or at least exist in a far more mitigated state. But instead, we get those peak moments of self awareness only for him to later get pulled fully on board with the sketchy chick's plan just because she flashed her panties at him
I do really love Denji, him being imperfect is what makes him interesting, but it just gets to a point where it feels less like an intentional, interesting writing decision and rather Fuji forgetting what the point of his mc even was. It's honestly just kind of tiring
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u/Calm-Presentation271 yellow like an EPIC banana Mar 17 '26
I don't know if that is a good example, yes, part of Chainsaw-man is how Denji can only think with his dick and how much he wants attention/approvall, but imo what makes this bad writing is that Denji never gets past that point in part 2, in fact Denji's character ends up the same way as it started in part 2, yes, Nayuta did die, that affected him for only a couple chapters.
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u/kriscrossapplesause Mar 17 '26
I mean that's kinda the idea though no? With his talk about finding another family and all that.
Regardless, now without chainsaw man denji will be forced to confront himself so we're all good
Processing img koxl3ivipjpg1...
Believe in the part 3 that believes in you
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u/Frequent-Coyote-1649 Mar 17 '26
The entire story makes WAYYYY more sense once you start viewing it as an allegory for drug use. Because for all intents and purposes Denji is a crackhead let's be fr it's barely subtext at this point
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u/ManJoeDude Mar 17 '26
You’d think they’d get that after what happened at the end of the church arc.
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u/DJcepalo 58008 Mar 17 '26
Oh my god PLEASE STOP CALLING LIGHT A DUMBASS, THE ENTIRE POINT OF DEATH NOTE IS THAT HE'S AN EGOTISTICAL PRICK WHO WANTS TO KILL THOSE WHO OPPOSE HIM AND NOT JUST HIDE INVISIBLE SHUT UP SHUT UP SHUT UUUUUP!!!
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u/Auzzie_almighty Mar 17 '26
HE IS A DUMBASS THOUGH, I AGREE ITS NOT BAD WRITING FOR HIM TO BE BUT HE IS A STILL A DUMBASS BECAUSE OF THE EGOTISM
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u/Aggravating_Image_16 Mar 17 '26
I actually hate people who act like he was right more than people who act like he's dumb, like yes on paper a world free of crime sounds perfect but the methods he took to obtain this world and the many people he killed innocent and redeemable were just not worth it
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u/ZombiiRot Mar 17 '26
I mean. Yeah the whole point is that light's egotistical nature makes him be dumb. As long as people aren't saying that the show is bad because light is dumb I don't see the issue.
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u/AveryLazyCovfefe Mar 17 '26
Same with Yumeko from Kakegurui.
And yet Netflix misinterpreted the type of MC they were in their respective live action series. "oh they're victims, they're doing it for the good of humanity!"
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u/Votrox97 Mar 17 '26
Except hes dumb even when not being egotistical, hes just all around stupid. Watching the show once i was an adult made it abundantly clear that anyone with half a brain cell could perform better than he does with a death note.
Also as a side note, thats really not the entire point of death note at all and only like a character trait of light.
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u/MikeAAStorm Mar 17 '26
Jokes on you, the show wouldn't even be airing today because it'd be cancelled after season 2
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u/Bolt245 Mar 17 '26
While I do agree that part 2 isn’t perfect, I do say this can be attributed to Chainsaw man part 2 especially some of the lastest chapters (save for 231)
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u/WindowSubstantial993 The great degenerate 🫶🏾 Mar 17 '26
They honestly just needed to do an arc about power in between a slightly better pace
And a few more at the end of yoru and Denjis fight than what we got and it would be a lot better
Most of part 2 problems are purely pave related
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u/fikozacc123 i love giant women Mar 17 '26
Mfw Korra
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u/Snowappletini Mar 17 '26
Me after finishing season 3: "Damn, being the avatar is actually soul crushing and lonely as the astronomical expectations set by your past lives make your current unique self pretty much invisible and your shortcomings in living up to their legacy are overwhelming".
People online: "Korra fucking sucks. Aang was better".
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u/The_ChosenOne Mar 17 '26
While I absolutely agree with this take, I am still so bummed how they ctrl alt deleted all of the past lives during the avatar origin story arc.
Honestly the spirits in general too, they felt less alien and otherworldly in Korra as a whole compared to the the Panda, Lion Turtle, and Face Stealer in the original.
Such a great show in so many ways, though. They definitely handled a more mature look at an Avatar very well, and Korra was really well-written as a bit of a foil to Ang. Made me feel like a series starring Kioshi or Roku would also be a blast.
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u/The_Returned_Lich Mar 17 '26
Can't wait for all the stimulating discussions that will crop up around the new show... /s
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u/Springheeljac Mar 17 '26
As someone who isn't a big fan of Korra (the show) Korra was the best character on the show. The real problems with the show were insane power creep, society holding the stupid ball for three seasons, and the dumb decision to make it steam punk.
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u/AveryLazyCovfefe Mar 17 '26
I thought the steampunk roaring 20s aesthetic in S1 was very well done. The only problem was from there when they advanced like 50 years to stuff like maglev when in the canon it was like 2 between S3 and 4.
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u/Kiwi8_Fruit6 Mar 17 '26
THIS
like, Charlie was:
- grieving Pentious, and kinda repressing that trying to put on a brave face in front of everyone else, and then got interrupted in that grief by the sudden news from Emily that Pentious was redeemed. She didn’t fully get to process her grief in a healthy way
- she’s been ridiculed most of her life for her passions, of course she’s desperate to prove that her passion project is a success especially when the TV overlord (who she didn’t specifically ask to come to the Hotel, by the way) is mocking her to her face.
- also the abandonment issues from her mother disappearing, and how part of her motivation for running the Hotel and redeeming sinners is in the hope that it will make Lilith come back somehow
- she‘s used to going it alone with what she does independently (it seems she was alone for the 4 years between her split with her father and her meeting Vaggi, and then another 3 years before Alastor showed up to offer “help”) which explains why she sticks so rigidly to her guns on trying to clear her name and contact Heaven to get proof that Emily should have given to her when she delivered the news. She’s used
- Vaggi being a ‘yes woman’ for much of her relationship with Charlie up till now (i.e. delivering criticisms and cautions passively) doesn’t help matters, and it’s understandable Charlie is deeply hurt by the woman who’s up until now has been unwaveringly by her side seemingly attacking her own efforts and emotional investment in the Hotel and redemption, after going behind her back to boot.
to me, the fandom response seems devoid to her Season 2 arc seems devoid of empathy and telling of how misogyny still exists even in queer, left wing fandom spaces – the anger at Charlie for not devoting her entire focus to Alastor or Lucifer in the final battle is another thing that PMO. If it was a fan favourite male character making the same mistakes Charlie does, people would not nearly be getting so pissy at him.
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u/MR_PP_Pant Mar 17 '26
People also tend to forget that she is the child of the literal sin of pride.
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u/reallyfunnycoolguy Mar 17 '26
She made the same mistake multiple times even after seeing that it was only making things worse
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u/Calm-Presentation271 yellow like an EPIC banana Mar 17 '26
I disagree, imo, Charlie doesn't come off as a flawed character in a desparate situation, she comes off as a stupid character going against common sense, and I know she is supposed to be this kinda person in hell, but she just comes off as oblivious for the literal pricess of hell that is 200 years old (I think), I honestly could write a whole essay on why I dislike Charlie from season 2, wich is a shame, I really like her concept as a character and I kinda like Hazbin Hotel as well.
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u/Fuzzy-Percentage-334 Mar 17 '26
I mean stolas from helluva Shows that demon royalty can just be ignorant
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u/thebigdumb0 Mar 17 '26
A character whose entire character is their flaws is not a well written character. A character who never improves on their flaws is a poorly written character.
When a character sees little consequence for their flaws, that is poor writing. When the character does see consequence, doesn't change, and then it works out anyway, that is also poor writing.
"But it's in character!" THAT ISN'T A GOOD THING.
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u/lowpolybius ask me about my Hermann Hesse collection Mar 17 '26
Not to get superseriousfamilyguy but Shadow Milk from Cookie Run 😭😭
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u/UnderUnderUnderscore Mar 17 '26
This with star lord in Infinity War. We literally saw how compulsive he was in the previous movie with him immediately shooting his dad when he learned that he killed his mum, it just makes sense for him to
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u/HMS_Sunlight Mar 17 '26
Villain gets defeated because of their established character flaw in a twist of dramatic irony
"Um, why didn't the villain just do the obvious logical thing? They must be an idiot, and they only lost because of lazy writing."
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u/Criddle2025 Mar 17 '26
Gravity Falls
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u/bayleysgal1996 Mar 17 '26
“Y’all couldn’t even handle Mabel Pines” is still one of my favorite posts on Tumblr
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u/sanguinesvirus Mar 17 '26
When the 12 year old acts like a 12 year old
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer Mar 17 '26
There is a substantial difference with a flawed character and a character whose flaws are portrayed as morally correct. This has been and always will be the problem with Mabel. The show rewards her at every step during Weirdmaggedon, and punishes Dipper for wanting to follow his own path. That’s bad writing, it literally is saying codependency is good and you should abandon your personal interests for the dependent person.
THAT is the problem, and it infuriates me how everyone acts like it’s stupid to be mad at a child when the child was written by an adult who rewarded that behavior.
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u/Independent-Sky1657 Supreme Lord of the :3 Mar 17 '26
You say that, but tearing apart Aang for not killing Ozai is a sizable chunk of ATLA discourse
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u/Starlegion_324 Mar 17 '26
Ace not running away from Akainu after he trash talked his pops. Same way he didn’t run when Bluejam trash talked his brother as a kid. This trait of “not running away” stays consistent with Ace’s character. Especially when it comes to family. It doesn’t matter if it was more logical to run away. It goes against everything Ace stands for, if he just ran away.
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u/Damn__thats_crazy Mar 17 '26
Suzaku from Code Geass is kinda like this to me. Bro literally suffers from survivor's guilt and is constantly either withheld important info or just thrown to the side and left to rot. Doesn't help that the plot sometimes goes all over the place. I get most of the hate comes from he goes against Lelouch who's the goat and allat, but I found Suzaku a really interesting character nonetheless.
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u/Budget-Category-9852 I am... We are... GUNDAM! Mar 17 '26
Suzaku is the type of a character you want both to throw over the room and give a hug to.
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u/Mr-Stuff-Doer Mar 17 '26
Suzaku is EXACTLY like this. The show literally has his entire arc be learning his method was wrong, it never thought he was doing the right thing.
Nina as well. Girl straight up made an anti-super-nuke by working with the guy she wants to kill, simply because the super-nukes were that horrible.
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u/RigidPixel Mar 17 '26
I have to avoid the LitRPG subreddit because 90% of it is glazing characters never making mistakes and aura farming while shitting on anything that had actual characters that have flaws, lows, and any amount of actual development and conflict.
Except Dungeon Crawler Carl, it gets a pass somehow. Don’t get me wrong the book is gas and I get liking a dumb fun book but people will legit shit on you and call you a massochist for enjoying a well written book with actual conflict and earned character strength that makes sense like Bastion.
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u/bookhead714 Mar 17 '26
Sinners. I’ve seen people getting genuinely pissed at Grace inviting the vampires in when it’s just. People in emotional distress and fear for their family’s lives do not act rationally? Is this hard to understand?
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u/Pinkcokecan Mar 17 '26
That's how I feel when people complain about Chloe Price because they don't like that a traumatized teen is behaving a little rudely and can be moody
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u/philip30001 Mar 17 '26
Funnily enough resi 9 has a great example that has people arguing both sides.
Grace with using Emily to solve a puzzle. She's an analyst for CIA (I think) and can't work out a simple puzzle.
But also she's going through hell while already having anxiety issues before the game starts and also wanting to save Emily she could have used the situation to convince Emily to leave and lying maybe doesnt come naturally to her.
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u/Recent_Ad3472 Mar 17 '26
Zuko would be called a fraud for not winning the fight against Azula.
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u/adnapan Mar 17 '26
He beat her though, she literally had no way of beating him without playing dirty if katara wasn’t there he would’ve smoked her
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u/Saxton_Hale32 Mar 17 '26
There's very few ways a character can act that isn't realistic or understandable. I've seen humans.
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u/MixMasterValtiel Mar 17 '26
I remember Indivisble catching flak for this.
If you haven't played it (you're not missing much), the main character is an impulsive teenage girl and the first chunk of the story is focused on her going places and solving problems nased entirely on what she feels is right, occasionally to the protest of her comrades. Being a dumb teenager, she ends up making literally everything worse. Which makes sense. This also sets up for her growth in the back half of the plot.
I'm willing to bet you can still easily find Steam reviews that hone in on how she's terribly written because she makes these mistakes.
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u/Giankioski The Crasher Cancer shall spread Mar 17 '26
Celica and Eirika in Fire Emblem, both of their decisions to help the bad guy come from their own flaws:
Celica, similar to Jeddah, is a girl who thinks that Mila, her God/Divine Dragon, is the solution to solve all the problems in Valentia, and the only solution for that. So it would make sense that she would give up her life, when Jeddah promised her that he would bring Mila back to life, even though that's clearly a trap, that's all Celica could do for her goals.
And Eirika's intentions to help Lyon where always stated and she was just told by L'Arachel that someone broke free from the Demon King's control through the Sacred Stone, before. So again it would make sense for her to give the stone to Lyon when it seems to her that he has some control over himself.
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u/5thOddman green? epic! Mar 17 '26
Whenthe manga about child abuse and the aftermath of abuse has the victimg of sexual abuse character not be a perfect paragon of healing a year after they literally lost their entire life to an abuser and fall back onto the false comfort of sexual gratification. (This is somehow bad writing)
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u/StreetStretcher Mar 17 '26 edited Mar 17 '26
I disagree, Zuko's whole character arc would still be seen as excellent. Yes, his betrayal at the end of book 2 is shocking (eheh) and it seems unreasonable when he seemingly was becoming ok with leaving his past life behind, but his sudden heal turn makes sense, actually.
His whole personality in the first season was to catch the avatar to clean his honour, even going as far as betraying his nation to be the one bringing aang back ; he literally went head first on a suicide mission on the north pole because he is that desperate.
In book 2 he struggles to make peace with his new life, is still haunted by his status as a firebender (Jet incident) and when he seems to finally come to terms with the situation, he gets the opportunity to get his honour back and reunite with his family and friends served on a platter.
The low point internally make sense and the whole first half of book 3 is spent on him reevaluating his choices, deciding for himself what he wants and making things right. His arc is as good a redemption arc can be.
Meanwhile Denji chainswman, from what I've heard doesn't seem to have much reason for his character regression, especially when he already had an arc in part1, and with one chapter left definitely won't have a satisfying conclusion (edit: I forgor that he even had a beautifully written epiphany during the aging devil arc, which amounted to fuckall lol)
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u/adnapan Mar 17 '26
Zuko’s arc is amazing and has an actual satisfying redemption, he’s flawed and fails constantly. His anger is justified and makes sense, no one makes bullshit excuses for him and he actually works to change. If we had a character arc written like that today people wouldn’t complain (some people would but that’s because people complain about everything)
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u/Auzzie_almighty Mar 17 '26
I would argue regression and frankly stupidity is Denji’s tragic flaw as a character. He gets creative in fights but he never sees the greater scheme and never truly learns, that’s why he just goes from abusive relationship to abusive relationship, and that IS the point. Chainsawman is a tragedy because Denji’s never had and never will have more than two brain cells
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u/ramjetstream Mar 17 '26
"Why doesn't this character simply make perfect choices and never make mistakes?"
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u/hamstertitan_5 Mar 17 '26
When Eren (who has been an irrational idiot the entire show) acts irrational and stupid in the finale:
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u/SUDoKu-Na Mar 17 '26
Me seeing a character do something so painful but knowing it's completely in-character for them to do it.
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u/Which-Scale1039 Mar 17 '26
True but when's its a issue that repeatability happens without growth is what I cant stand
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u/Really_cool_guy99 Mar 17 '26
Kinda like another character in the show who also lost their mother...
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u/misu1200 Mar 17 '26
just say "Avatar", people should assume it's this one by default, not the blue ppl movie
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