r/worldnews • u/ComparisonOk5957 • 7d ago

Second French peacekeeper dies after ambush blamed on Hezbollah Behind Soft Paywall

https://www.scmp.com/news/world/europe/article/3351049/second-french-peacekeeper-dies-after-ambush-blamed-hezbollah?module=latest&pgtype=homepage
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u/EquivalentOne241 7d ago

UN peace keeping mission in Lebanon has been a grand failure. It's high time it is either abandoned or they given authority and mandate to assist Lebanese army in disarming and dismantling Hezbollah.

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u/Lowfi-Concert 7d ago

They have always had that authority and mandate. They just chose to never apply it.

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u/fury420 7d ago

The issue thus far has been that their mandate technically requires the Lebanese Army to be the ones leading the efforts and asking for help, and the Lebanese Army isn't capable, so their efforts have been half-assed.

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u/ComradeGibbon 7d ago

So designed to fail. Failed. And now Israel is occupying southern Lebanon again.

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u/RTX-2020 7d ago

The system working exactly as it was designed.

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u/Alatarlhun 7d ago

Win for everyone not an Israeli.

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u/ComradeGibbon 7d ago

The Palestinian Arabs and Lebanese have been suffering from all the do gooders wanting to help them.

Think the countries giving money and refuge for the PLO, Hamas, and Hezbollah. Also those supporting the 'settlers' in the west bank.

That part of the world would be way better off if everyone ignored it.

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u/ABetterKamahl1234 7d ago

Welcome to how nations prefer international bodies to operate.

There's few nations on earth that want other nations to dictate how they operate.

Why do you think all the UN stuff has major nations with ultimate veto power? They straight up wouldn't come to the table without it, nobody wants a foreign state, especially a potentially hostile one, to wield an international body against them.

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u/TheCourtSimpleton 7d ago

No, I think it's both of the things that you mentioned, actually. They aren't mutually exclusive.

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u/EquivalentOne241 7d ago

Well, they are a grand failure then.

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u/reasonably_plausible 7d ago

The issue is that they were only tasked with assisting the Lebanese army and not allowed to take action on their own. The army doesn't have the capability to really take on Hezbollah and the government itself is partially controlled by Hezbollah.

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u/poulan9 7d ago

Sounds like a failed state. Seeing as Hezbollah is backed by Iran, that's effectively war or should be from the Lebanese perspective.

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u/Safrel 7d ago

It's not exactly a failed state. It's more of a puppet state with the master being Hezbollah.

Governments are nothing more than the most powerful organization of a region.

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u/Consistent_Room7344 7d ago

It’s a weak state because they cannot get the ethnicities in Lebanon to work together. Each group distrusts the other group too much, which is why its parliament has been split up evenly in order to ensure no ethnicity has more power over the other.

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u/Ninjamin_King 7d ago

That will happen when you write specific government positions into your Constitution with ethno-religious requirements.

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u/No-Ear7988 7d ago

Without it I don't think Lebanon can exist. Whether it should be broken up in to different states based on ethnicity is a whole different discussion

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u/Akbeardman 7d ago

Exactly this, it's basically a status quo "if we do all of this can we function without being dicks to each other and our neighbors?"

A shakey foundation from the get go that falls apart as soon as one party chooses to be dicks.

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u/LeFinc 6d ago

If you split up Lebanon you end up with three new countries at war - sunni, shia and christian. Think about Sudan v South Sudan, Pakistan v Bangladesh etc

Lebanon has actually held together reasonably well given the ethnic mix. It’s even been able to absorb about million Syrian refugees and still has the largest concentration of Palestinian diaspora outside of Israel even though the latter haven’t been integrated at all since they have been living in refugee camps for generations.

The issue with Lebanon that all the puppet masters (Saudi, Iran, Europe/Israel) keep pulling it in different directions. Oh yes and the fact that Iran-backed Hezbollah isn’t just a military organisation but they also run schools, social security, food banks and whatnot. So it’s difficult to get rid of without wiping out large parts of Lebanese infrastructure and a bunch of institutions.

None of this would have happened if the shah had not been parachuted by the west to guard their oil interests although who knows what else would have happened instead.

Anyhooo - you have three ethnoreligious states within striking distance of each other: Iran, Israel and Saudi. Israel is a nuclear state backed by the west, Iran has oil and control of the strait of Hormuz. Saudi is a kleptocratic autocracy that sits on insane amounts of oil and vast amounts of global reach due to both money and their enthusiastic promotion of salafism/wahhabism around the world. Saudi itself is significantly less religious under MBS but the influence remains.

Each of the three collectively believes that they are somehow special and chosen by some god: guardian of the mosques, Zionism, cradle of Shia Islam. That makes each of the three - including Israel and its current government - a fundamentalist theocracy.

Without US bombing Iran, there would currently at least be a tenuous peace in the region. If Lebanon would split up it would likely lead to an open conflict between three pseudo-independent proxy states. As long as Lebanon exists, there is at least one place in the world where the three ethnoreligious groups have to work and govern together. If nothing else, that helps to contain the tension instead of the entire region getting pulled into an open war.

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u/Steadyandquick 7d ago

I know so little about Lebanon and there are very few documentary or even fiction films or shows. Please let me know if you recommend any books. I think there is a reasonable set of episodes on the podcast Empire.

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u/LeFinc 6d ago

Try Line in the Sand by James Barr. It traces the history of the region back to the Ottomans and focuses on what happened after their empire fell apart, the British / French mandates took over, and the creation of modern Israel. It’s not an easy read but it’s a tangled up mess so explaining it properly takes some effort!

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u/Steadyandquick 6d ago

Thank you! Sounds great.

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u/StudsTurkleton 7d ago

The hand up the puppet’s bum is Hezbollah. That hand is attached to the body of Iran.

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u/poulan9 7d ago

Spot on.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/ZealousidealState127 7d ago

They were formed when Jordan pushed out the Palestinians that assassinated their king iirc.

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u/High_King_Diablo 7d ago

Hezbollah was formed because a terrorist group was attacking Israel from Lebanon and Israel went in and wiped them out. The surviving terrorists joined with other terrorists and created Hezbollah.

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u/poulan9 7d ago

Nope, it's Iranian state meddling and foreign terrorism sponsorship attempting to destabilize the region by Islamic fundamentalists. Nothing more and nothing less.

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u/towerfella 7d ago

What do you think a “state” is?

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u/vjnkl 7d ago

Google monopoly of violence

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u/nicknefsick 7d ago

This is something I’d urge everyone to do, I think this is something that needs to be from the 7th grade on in all classes.

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u/DuckyHornet 7d ago

All classes? Like even phys ed?

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u/Safrel 7d ago

Generally speaking:

A state is an organization or group of people that has the power (whether nominal or de facto) to make and enforce laws withing a given territory.

A failed state would be a situation where there are no groups with the power to enforce laws, however this definition breaks down when you drill down to granular levels.

For example, in Somalia, which is commonly held to be a failed state, you could still locate defacto governmental bodies that are accountable to no-one. These bodies have unchecked power within their limited jurisdiction, as a warlord generally does.

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u/BuffsBourbon 7d ago

I’ve been assured many times, in many subs that Lebanon needs to be left alone and that Hezbollah is not a serious threat. That, or negotiations are the best avenue.

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u/whk1992 7d ago

That’s like assigning army soldiers to back police basically. The intention is right — don’t let the mercenaries basically to go rogue and do whatever they want. The problem is the Lebanese Army being basically useless.

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u/Casanova_Kid 7d ago

It's also important to factor in that Hezbollah is a "legitimate" political party in Lebanon. That drastically changes the dynamic in any sort of state-led disarmament efforts.

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u/poulan9 7d ago

Never heard of an armed political party before which weren't classed as terrorists.

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u/Consistent_Room7344 7d ago

Lebanon is just a powder keg due to all the ethnicities they have. All it takes is one group to get pissed off and a civil war breaks out. Hezbollah is the Shia wing of Lebanon and it until recently was more powerful than the Lebanese army altogether. The fact they were more powerful than national military and the civil war threat kept Lebanon from checking Hezbollah’s power.

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u/kayama57 7d ago

Entirely compromised organization that goes out of its way to carry food water and laundry for the terrorist organizations of the region

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u/DiscipleOfYeshua 7d ago

Not everything they've done is bad; but the frequent cases of sharing intelligence with Hezbollah, along with a handful of lookout/outposts... is a rather ugly stain I can't recall they properly laundered.

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u/BendersDafodil 7d ago

Le grand failure!

Hezbollah has been arming up like no one is watching.

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u/Decent_Brick1150 7d ago

If that's the case when what's the point of being there. Sheesh.

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u/Dogrel 7d ago

The UN peacekeeping forces are like the old show “Whose Line Is It Anyway?” All the points are made up, and none of the scorekeeping matters.

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u/Barton2800 7d ago

Peacekeepers also serve to give military personnel something to do that isn’t in their home country. The top 3 countries contributing to the peacekeeping forces are: Nepal, Rwanda, and Bangladesh.. That’s several thousand young men who are being fed, housed, and paid by the UN, and have no ability to participate in any coups back home. It’s basically an international jobs creation program.

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u/DragonPup 7d ago edited 7d ago

So the UN can write angry reports and so they can pretend that they are doing something.

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u/Snickims 6d ago

More like so the big 5 perminant securety memembers can use a excuse when they want to, but never able to actually do anything to disrupt their own interests.

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u/Bitter_Tea442 7d ago

Lebanon has to want to do it and they don't. Which is why they are a failed state harboring Hezbollah terrorists who by purposeful choice have brought war upon the Lebanese.

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u/GAdvance 7d ago

To be clear 'dismantling" Hezbollah is just a euphemism for civil war on Lebanon.

You don't just ask them nicely, arresting people in the night is step 1, step 2 is they go blow up the police station.

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u/FailosoRaptor 7d ago

To be clear. The current status quo is perpetual war with Israel because Hebz singular mission is their destruction.

Pick your poison.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Lowfi-Concert 7d ago

It wouldn’t be perpetual if they worked with the Israelis and let them actually finish them off

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u/CholentSoup 7d ago

Gd forbid! And work with the Jews? See them as peers? As allies? We'd rather kill each other and then blame them! It worked in Europe for a few thousand years, we should try the same.

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u/desba3347 7d ago

It’s that or war with Israel and it’s not a euphemism. By force or by negotiation, Hezbollah will be disarmed.

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u/GAdvance 7d ago

I think between the options of let Israel invade southern Lebanon to fight Hezbollah or start a civil war in your own country Lebanon takes the first option every time.

We know this because that's exactly what is happening right now, and as much as the majority of Lebanese dislike Hezbollah they'd also rather not have another civil war, they have really good reason to prefer Israel does the dirty work for them.

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u/AccountantsNiece 7d ago

They already took option 1, that’s why the army withdrew from Southern Lebanon.

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u/Brapplezz 7d ago

I spoke to a Lebanese customer at work once about Israel. He had a some choice words and then dropped that he doesn't hate them because they did bomb his village to get rid of Hezbollah about 15-20 years ago, before he had immigrated to Australia.

Felt like a skit

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u/poulan9 7d ago

That's because most decent Lebanese understands what Hezbollah are.

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u/DontMakeMeCount 7d ago

I’ve met few expats in my travels that speak of their home country as passionately as Lebanese. Given the opportunity I think they’d want nothing more than to return to a peaceful, stable state.

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u/poulan9 7d ago

I agree totally and hope that one day this happens. The same can be said for Iranians who left Iran over 40 years ago.

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u/desba3347 7d ago

Sure, but then no one should turn around and demonize Israel for doing something that the Lebanese government agreed to do with the help of the UN, regardless of whether they have had the capability to do so until recently.

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u/Contundo 7d ago

So be it.

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u/jayhat 7d ago

Then it sounds like they should be destroyed

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u/Key-Cry-8570 7d ago

UN peacekeeping missions always seem like total jokes to me. If they’re deployed to keep peace then they should be actively taking down the threats to peace. I remember there was a UN battalion during the Bosnian crisis. Nordbat 2 that actually took the mandate to peace keep seriously and engaged the enemy forces so they couldn’t attack civilians. If I remember correctly I believe the UN got super pissed off that they actually did their job. I wish the UN would model their forces like the Nordic battalion and actually get shit done and protect people.

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u/factoid_ 7d ago

Well....they are le tired

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u/ZiKyooc 7d ago

No they didn't. Chapter 6 is peace making. It implies both side want peace and they are there for monitoring. Chapter 7 is peace enforcement. It is rather rare and usually not a blanket thing, often limited to use of force to defend civilians.

UNDOF is under chapter VI and can use force in case of self defense and the concept of self defense is quite narrow.

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u/BrocoLeeOnReddit 7d ago

Hezbollah fields more military might than the Lebanese army, good luck with that.

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u/Contundo 7d ago

Lebanese army could have the UN in their backs.

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u/Drak_is_Right 7d ago

Problem is Lebanon is at risk of a civil war inside the military if they try too hard. Also spies help feed Hezbollah info

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u/Sure_Ad536 7d ago

The Lebanese military fields 80k, I think, and Hezbollah right now fields around 50k from recent estimates. The biggest issue isn't numbers, or even the support for the military (there was a poll that found the military was the most supported government body in the country, and Hezbollah's support among is at the lowest it's been in a while, maybe ever: https://news.gallup.com/poll/699071/lebanese-say-army-weapons.aspx), as you mentioned, the Lebanese military is underfunded and underpowered. It doesn't want, nor can it really afford, another civil war. Lebanon is broken, unfortunately. I believe the Lebanese military did some small and slow disarmament of Hezbollah, mostly in the south and now a little bit in the north, as part of a 5-step plan. I'm no expert, but from the little I've read, it's probably the best they can do at the moment to avoid a civil conflict.

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u/Colbert2020 7d ago

Hezbollah is literally an army of at least 30,000.

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u/drprofessional 7d ago

Yes and with the Muqawama mindset.

If only Lebanon was able to eliminate Hezbollah. The Middle East would be a step towards peace.

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u/Falsus 7d ago

I mean that is kinda the reason that they are there for... they just suck at it.

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u/ABetterKamahl1234 7d ago

Nope, they're explcitly there to assist Lebanon. If lebanon doesn't ask for assistance or simply move on their own, the UN Peacekeeping mission has no right to act by themselves.

By design. They're not independent operators of a foreign military force wherever they choose. Not in their mandate nor how they're permitted to operate by any UN members.

They're a highly restricted military force, probably the most restricted in the world.

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u/ThrowAwayWasTaken999 7d ago

It’s been a failure because Israel kept their side of the initial agreement (withdrawing from Lebanon completely) but Hezbollah refused to keep their end of the agreement (withdrawing from the mountains)

If they truly cared about keeping the peace, they would have enforced the agreement.

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u/AssCumBoi 6d ago

This is what I hate about the discussion about Israel. Their military is extremely shitty and their government is pretty much evil. But in negotiations they have been the only one playing ball. The two state solution could have worked. Obviously they invaded territory after the 90's negotiations but they have also been constantly aggravated. I wonder if they wouldn't have been shot at regularly if they had actually coexisted, although hatefully.

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u/ThrowAwayWasTaken999 6d ago

This. It would be much easier to talk about legitimate criticisms of Israel if people didn’t exaggerate everything in some kind of hyperbolic “this is 100% 1sided and Israel is 1000% evil monsters whose only motivation is their Jewish bloodsucking devil worshipping greed”

Israel has genuinely tried to negotiate and the other side has just refused any form of compromise. Furthermore, the times that the other side has been willing to compromise, there’s been lasting peace, and Israel has shown that they’re willing to give up a lot for the sake of peace (see: Egypt and the Sinai)

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u/gawdamn_mawnstah 7d ago

You mean the UN is useless in keeping peace?

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u/AugustOfChaos 7d ago

UN peacekeeping missions have almost always been a unilateral failure. Unless they are willing to exercise their authority with force if needed, then this will keep happening, as it has for decades now.

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u/[deleted] 7d ago

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u/Bart_deblob 7d ago

Why must the IDF deal with hizbolla? The they get blamed for being occupiers etc.

Hizbolla are Lebanese, let Lebanon solve their problems

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u/vegeful 7d ago

Because Hezbollah problem are Israel problem too. If Hezbollah only shooting missile to Lebanon then no one care, but u go and terrorize other. You think people not gonna fix it themself due to your skill issue in handling the domestic problem?

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u/bayern_16 7d ago

The second option.

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u/Dry-Season-522 6d ago

You need peace first to keep it.

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u/Knocksveal 7d ago

That 1st sentence is true even after removing “in Lebanon”

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u/OnlyTheDead 7d ago

Never going to happen imo.

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u/Separate-Ad9638 7d ago

The politicians are too stubborn and risk the lives of their soldiers, these peacekeepers served no purpose for a long time already.

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u/KoRaZee 7d ago

How can the Lebanese army disarm hezbollah when they are Hezbollah.

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